2013 worlds pairs FS | Page 24 | Golden Skate

2013 worlds pairs FS

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Sui can find a new Partner for sure, she is still petite for a pairs skater
Cong on the other hand, No, he is too short to be a male pair skater in the first place that is why were bound to get this problem

What do you think his future is then. I dont think he is strong enough a jumper to be a top singles skater. Could he go into ice dancing.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Finally. The beauty in Pairs is back. That was so unbearable to see so many plain-looking champions with ugly lines, horrible postures and crappy progs during last years. Glad to see that the classy elegance is alive and well.

Thanks, Tanya and Max!

indeed. Their free program was pure Russian pair skating at its best. now if they could have come up with an SP with that amount of elegance and beauty....
in any event, they are primed to carry on the legacy of their country's dominance at the olympics next year. For me this is bittersweet because as much as I respect their skating that comes with the knowledge that Aliona and Robin's time was supposed to be 2010. The latter are one of the greatest teams of this generation (despite their grossly over scored FS this week), their throws and consistent risk-taking will be their lineage, even through its almost certain they will leave the sport without the olympic gold.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
What do you think his future is then. I dont think he is strong enough a jumper to be a top singles skater. Could he go into ice dancing.

does China have many ice dance teams ? If No I don't think he has a chance
he is still too short for ice dance anyways where the ladies are even taller
 

David21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
But the problem is, fans don't want to be given a homework assignment. They just want to enjoy the competition.


Then those "fans" shold just watch and enjoy the compeitition and not bother with the scoring and placements of the judges.
 

Kinga

Medalist
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Take a deep breath and realize that Canadians as all competitors still have a lot of work to do going forward, and that right now Canadian fans should just be happy they have so many contenders at or near the top. What, you guys want to have your cake, icing, cherry on top, and eat it too??!! :unsure:

Well, Kinga, the enforcer. You are gonna have your hands full policing ISU judges! :p ;)

I suppose if this outrage repeats itself in favor of any Canadian skaters, that'd be cool with you. It has happened quite often in the past for Patrick Chan. Were you one of those outraged for Dai at last year's Worlds?

Art&Sport. I suggest you chill out. I'm not Canadian, I have never lived in Canada and I have nothing to do with Canada, so please stop labelling me as a biased Canadian fan.
Also, I believe I haven't been posting during last year Worlds?? And even if I had nothing against Chan's win in Nice, does this make me biased Canadian fan? Please, stop this nonsense. I just happen to have my opinion. I just happen to think MT-M and D/R were better than S/S (and I even don't like D/R that much, whereas I love MT/M and I love multiple S/S routines (not all of them, though)).
 

pharmtech1

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
I was there and the scores got booed , not the skaters ! I was one of the many that did boo the scores and feel very justified in doing so . They were given a great applause at the medal ceremony. PCS are nothing but a newer way to hold up skaters !!!
 

Scrufflet

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 1, 2010
I was there and the scores got booed , not the skaters ! I was one of the many that did boo the scores and feel very justified in doing so . They were given a great applause at the medal ceremony. PCS are nothing but a newer way to hold up skaters !!!

I am glad to hear this! I was there for the short and saw the end of the long in Skate Canada house. I reported elsewhere that I was so proud that fans were supportive of all skaters and was told that I was wrong. I wondered if I was and went and checked the FS online and had the impression that it was the scores that got booed. Glad to have this confirmed. People in SCH were all excited at the end of the event that 2 Canadians had done so well. No grumbling. And then Dylan Moscovitch came in to huge applause!
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Well as much as I preferred the two Canadians I can see why Ssquared won silver; just like Kostner getting silver and Chan's gold. The uneducated world to skating may not understanding COP but diehards or blowhards lol do. (they just may not like to admit it double lol) But the more we whine and complain i am not sure we are helping the sport survive. when you think about it; it wasn't a well skated world's. The pairs were not "special" and no one was whistle clean - lots of bobbles at least.
 

Kinga

Medalist
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
The uneducated world to skating may not understanding COP but diehards or blowhards lol do. (they just may not like to admit it double lol) But the more we whine and complain i am not sure we are helping the sport survive. when you think about it; it wasn't a well skated world's. The pairs were not "special" and no one was whistle clean - lots of bobbles at least.

Well, I consider myself as a diehard. I do understand COP. Do I agree with all its assumptions and how it is applied? No. It does not make me uneducated.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Well, I consider myself as a diehard. I do understand COP. Do I agree with all its assumptions and how it is applied? No. It does not make me uneducated.

I don't understand it too!!! And I also can't see the mystic skating skills( balance, flow,direction,sureness, speed)..I wasn't skater, I can see the speed..
 

pharmtech1

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Well, I consider myself as a diehard. I do understand COP. Do I agree with all its assumptions and how it is applied? No. It does not make me uneducated.

I do understand the new system and when you make so many mistakes it definitely affects the program as a whole . When you have all these errors technically it should obviously lower both scores !!!
 

davogt

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
I was there and the scores got booed , not the skaters ! I was one of the many that did boo the scores and feel very justified in doing so . They were given a great applause at the medal ceremony. PCS are nothing but a newer way to hold up skaters !!!

If you expect me to believe those boos would have been as loud, or present at all, if the Canadians had been given a 1 point edge in the same situation, just the two countries reversed, you're kidding yourself. So while you may be an exception in this regard, the fact is, most people were booing the skaters, not just the judges.

In contrast, nobody seemed to mind the way the scoring system worked later that evening when Patrick Chan emerged victorious after a routine that earned him a half-hearted standing ovation in an arena which was previously handing them out to any Canadian capable of tying their own skates. I was there for both, and I don't recall hearing any boos then.
 

pharmtech1

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
If you expect me to believe those boos would have been as loud, or present at all, if the Canadians had been given a 1 point edge in the same situation, just the two countries reversed, you're kidding yourself. So while you may be an exception in this regard, the fact is, most people were booing the skaters, not just the judges.

In contrast, nobody seemed to mind the way the scoring system worked later that evening when Patrick Chan emerged victorious after a routine that earned him a half-hearted standing ovation in an arena which was previously handing them out to any Canadian capable of tying their own skates. I was there for both, and I don't recall hearing any boos then.

Wow !
Obviously many people do not understand the scoring system and the fact that the final score is the total of 2 programs not just the free skate !!!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
In contrast, nobody seemed to mind the way the scoring system worked later that evening when Patrick Chan emerged victorious after a routine that earned him a half-hearted standing ovation in an arena which was previously handing them out to any Canadian capable of tying their own skates. I was there for both, and I don't recall hearing any boos then.

Firstly, you're looking at two different scenarios, the first is where D/R had a 2-point lead after the SP over the Germans (and a deserved one at that), and then boo after the Germans make three obvious errors in their FS and still get a higher score than D/R. I agree that D/R's skating is not up to par, but you can't imagine that a program with 3 major errors should score above an almost clean program. In the second case with Ten/Chan, Ten DID score above Chan in the FS due to Chan's multitude of errors (even if the quads made up for those errors somewhat). He won the FS, but placed 2nd overall due to Chan's lead. People are saying Chan's lead in the SP was unmerited, but IMO, the gap between him and Ten (who I thought was a tad overscored in his PCS in both segments) should have been about 7 points. Even the Eurosport guys conceded that Chan should probably win due to his lead, and superior program.

The Germans were actually trailing, and while they did have superior programs PCS-wise, both programs were technically inferior to the Canadians. It's hard to say if the Germans' decision is easier to stomach since it's not like they had an SP lead to justify winning with a flawed FS (as if it's hard enough justifying placing above others with a flawed freeskate).
 

katia

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 20, 2006
In contrast, nobody seemed to mind the way the scoring system worked later that evening when Patrick Chan emerged victorious after a routine that earned him a half-hearted standing ovation in an arena which was previously handing them out to any Canadian capable of tying their own skates. I was there for both, and I don't recall hearing any boos then.
The thing is that if Chan was victorious without falls he would not have got half-hearted ovation**. With mostly Canadian audience it is equal to loud boos.
How can ovation be half-hearted? If it is half-hearted then it is not ovation, is it?
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The standing ovation for Patrick was because it was on home ice. Obviously home ice fans will give standing ovations to their national skaters, let alone a 2-time, now 3-time, World Champion.

I had a hard time explaining to other folks that Chan won because of the SP lead, but I think even the non-skating fans could see that Chan was a much better skater than Ten, especially towards the later half of Ten's program, when it was more apparent he was just skating from element to element. The resounding comment was "Yeah, Chan's a better skater but he fell and the other guy didn't.", to which you have to justify to the lamens viewers as "Well, yeah... he lost the freeskate because of that, but had a huge lead after a perfect short program, and his quads in the freeskate saved his gold."
 

pharmtech1

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
The standing ovation for Patrick was because it was on home ice. Obviously home ice fans will give standing ovations to their national skaters, let alone a 2-time, now 3-time, World Champion.

I had a hard time explaining to other folks that Chan won because of the SP lead, but I think even the non-skating fans could see that Chan was a much better skater than Ten, especially towards the later half of Ten's program, when it was more apparent he was just skating from element to element. The resounding comment was "Yeah, Chan's a better skater but he fell and the other guy didn't.", to which you have to justify to the lamens viewers as "Well, yeah... he lost the freeskate because of that, but had a huge lead after a perfect short program, and his quads in the freeskate saved his gold."

The skating ability is so far ahead of most of the top guys , he doesn't waste any beat of his music . His programs are pieces of art and that is where the less knowledgeable skating fans are not getting it ! Patrick does not just skate down the ice into jumps like some of his haters (Plushenko and especially Joubert) this is one of the big differences and results in his scores ! Seriously if people want to diss Patrick please get educated on all of figure skating , including levels , GOE .....
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
The skating ability is so far ahead of most of the top guys , he doesn't waste any beat of his music . His programs are pieces of art and that is where the less knowledgeable skating fans are not getting it ! Patrick does not just skate down the ice into jumps like some of his haters (Plushenko and especially Joubert) this is one of the big differences and results in his scores ! Seriously if people want to diss Patrick please get educated on all of figure skating , including levels , GOE .....

Plushenko and Joubert are not Chan's haters! Plushenko doesn't hate anybody, Chan, Yagudin or Lysacek and they don't hate Plushenko either. Nor Joubert. I doubt you´re very educated on FS since all you do is to repeat some clichés from media. :disapp:
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
The skating ability is so far ahead of most of the top guys , he doesn't waste any beat of his music . His programs are pieces of art and that is where the less knowledgeable skating fans are not getting it ! Patrick does not just skate down the ice into jumps like some of his haters (Plushenko and especially Joubert) this is one of the big differences and results in his scores ! Seriously if people want to diss Patrick please get educated on all of figure skating , including levels , GOE .....

I think people disregard pieces of art if there's a giant smear or two across them, namely the falls. It's really hard to appreciate his programs (or any program, really) that is laden with errors. Based on his SP and quads, superior skating skills over Ten, and his major competitors bombing in the short (and making errors in the free), I think Chan deserved to win.

However, it's really difficult to say a program with errors should get the PCS marks for performance/execution that he got. It would be like giving him a 5.1 for technical merit (the maximum IMO, considering he had two falls, a step out, and a doubled jump), and a 5.9 for artistic. This would still place above a lesser skater with a clean, balanced program who got 5.5 and 5.5.

Again, if we're to treat figure skating as a sport, somebody with 3 or 4 major errors should not theoretically place ahead of somebody who went clean or made a minor error. The Germans being placed over the Canadians is MUCH harder to justify than Chan's win, and only when you delve into the precise details of the program - GOE, UR's, etc. - can you actually justify to somebody. I think the biggest issue skating fans have with the Germans placing over the Canadians is that the rest of the program really wasn't skated as well as the Germans can/have in the past (they seemed deflated due to the errors), yet their PCS didn't take a hit.
 

Colanboy

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Well, I consider myself as a diehard. I do understand COP. Do I agree with all its assumptions and how it is applied? No. It does not make me uneducated.
The problem isn't whether you agree or not, it's whether you understand where the scores are derived from. The casual viewer will not understand underrotations or levels, and this makes it hard for skating to thrive as a spectator sport and viewership.
 
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