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Thread: 2013 worlds pairs FS

  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by koatcue View Post
    I don't know why but I feel Russian vibes from you ahah=)
    lets just say, there was no reason they would not have won, V/T would have scored a 150+ if it wasn't for Maxim fluke fall
    those who claim S/S should have won are nothing but rabid jealousy, they were already overscored and should have only gotten bronze

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Some judging faux-pases:

    - V/T got a 10.00 on performance/execution with a fall
    There's nothing about falls in the PE criteria. If a skater falls but doesn't let that fall affect his performance and meets all of the criteria, that is theoretically possible.

    (V/T didn't obviously deserve a 10 for that performance of that program but just making a general point )

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    - S/S got two +1's for their two-footed triple axel
    And the judges didn't go lower than -1 either, even though a double-footed landing is a -3 deduction (well it can be less if you think it was just a slight touch down but that was more than the free foot scraping the ice)

    They also gave S/S +2s for a triple twist with a big crash. S/S got higher GOE on the 3tw than D/R who actually had a clean one, executed brilliantly with a strong catch.

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    They won't for ladies, but assuming Osmond does well, it's looking like 11 spots for Canada at the Olympics/2014 Worlds, which is unpredecented, I think.

    I'm just thrilled to see the Canadians skating so well. It's been ages since we've had TWO world-podium worthy pairs teams on the national team. It's a big ask, but to have two top 5 placements in men's/pairs/ice dance and a top 5 in women's would be arguably our most successful Worlds. And a medal in every discipline would bode well... especially for the Olympic team event.
    I agree
    Congrats To Canada , I think this was even more successful than Vancouver with many podium contenders

  4. #379
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    I have not watched the videos yet, but according to the scores S/S and D/R were very close compared to the other competitors (1 point). So if S/S deserved the silver then it wasn't that convincingly.

    Yeah, it's been a while or may be never since Canada has had this big of a presence.

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I think people would be less alienated by the scoring system if they tried to understand how it works.
    But the problem is, fans don't want to be given a homework assignment. They just want to enjoy the competition.

  6. #381
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    Wow for V/T that was an incredible performance those throws were monstrous ! they were in a league of their own tonight
    Aliona and Robin were really gutsy to do the throw 3a at the very end, Wow!
    I am so happy for Duhamel and Radford, they really deserved that medal, they have improved so much over the course of the season and their sbs 3lz is one of my fovourite elements of any pairs team M-T/M were beautiful too, how wonderful for the canadian teams to skate so well in their home country

  7. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    But the problem is, fans don't want to be given a homework assignment. They just want to enjoy the competition.
    Exactly. It's hard enough justifying to a casual viewer why a single fall gets 2nd place while others skate clean. It's even harder to justify why THREE major errors get 2nd place while others skate clean. Add to the fact that it's Canadians getting jipped in both situations and it being held in Canada, and then people wonder why so many say figure skating (or its judging, rather) is a sham.

    I think the problem though from this pairs competition is even fans of figure skating have a hard time processing how three triple jumps turned to doubles, a two-footed throw and a fall can place ahead of clean skates (not just overall, but in the actual FS segment!), even with levels considered. And it's not like the Germans had a perfectly executed SP either, when both Canadian teams did.

    It's disheartening for any team - what's the point of competing when even if you go clean with big difficulty, those who make multiple major errors are still placed ahead of you?!

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    lets just say, there was no reason they would not have won, V/T would have scored a 150+ if it wasn't for Maxim fluke fall
    those who claim S/S should have won are nothing but rabid jealousy, they were already overscored and should have only gotten bronze

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    lets just say, there was no reason they would not have won, V/T would have scored a 150+ if it wasn't for Maxim fluke fall
    those who claim S/S should have won are nothing but rabid jealousy, they were already overscored and should have only gotten bronze
    Where are people claiming S/S should have won here? I think Skater Boy posted before V/T finished skating something about "The Germans could still win." But I don't think he meant he's pulling for them, just that they were in first over D/R with a decent score. If anything, Max and Tatiana were over-scored a bit, but still would have comfortably won regardless if they'd made another mistake aside from Maxim's fall.

    This was the best V/T have skated all season. A season during which V/T were held up with numerous mistakes on many occasions. V/T's programs were conservative and safe this season, and I don't have any sense that V/T have truly found a signature style of their own. They have great potential to do amazing things re choreo and performance with the right music, but they are not there yet in terms of bringing provocative, amazing and inspiring programs to the ice on the level of S/S's The Mission, Schindler's List, Send in the Clowns, and Pina. Even S/S's Out of Africa, Casablanca, Pink Panther and some other programs are more inspired than what V/T have been bringing in terms of choreo, concept and delivery.

    This season has been fair to middling for S/S but that doesn't mean that suddenly D/R or even V/T are so much better than them in every way, or that S/S deserve to be low-balled and pushed to third at this Worlds. They did enough to be exactly where they are, in second. D/R I am quite sure are overjoyed. I would be surprised if D/R have the feeling that they are so much better than S/S at this point. I don't think Meagan and Eric have the mindset of arrogance. They always put their nose to the grindstone, work hard, and worry about improving themselves, not about what mistakes others made that mean they are so much better. D/R's belief in themselves and their hard work on improving their lines and transitions paid off here and I'm so happy for them.

    The people booing S/S scores in the audience need to get a life. S/S were well below their SB in fp, and were dinned a bit in the sp. Ain't that enuf for all you S/S detractors? ... I guess not. Then go ahead and pout. None of these pairs teams are gonna be pouting, I'll bet, that is if they hope to be on target for being competitive next season. Pouting gets no one anywhere. I speak from experience.

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Ha ha! Now with that unexpected fall by Max, will we hear people sayin' D/R deserved to beat V/T too?!

    D/R are happy being on the podium people. That's what they were aiming for and they did a great job. Seriously though they are very close, D/R are not yet 4-time World champion beaters. And I happen to love D/R! The sp scores were well-deserved b/c D/R skated so inspired, but to be ahead of S/S even in the short was a serious over-achieving accomplishment. D/R were shocked and surprised at that too. D/R were quite good in fp, but not as f'ing great as in their sp.
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Shame on the Canadian audience for booing Savchenko/Szolkowy.

    PJ Kwong dissed the French crowd last year for booing Chan's win, now the Canadian audience has done the same.
    Sour grapes popping up in perfect unison...why am I not surprised?

    The audience was booing the judges, not S/S. During the award ceremony, S/S received warm applauses. Someone in the audience even yelled : "Judges should be fired!" Clearly, whatever emotions there were, it was directed at the judges. We were sandwiched between Dylan and Meghan's family in the stands. Meghan's mother accidentally let out a scream of joy after K/S' score knowing that they made the podium but that was it - it wasn't a celebration of K/S's mishap. Could you please refrain from spreading false rumor on the internet like Phil Harsh's manipulative and intentional out of context quote on Scott Moir? These media wars are really silly and childish.

  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Exactly. It's hard enough justifying to a casual viewer why a single fall gets 2nd place while others skate clean. It's even harder to justify why THREE major errors get 2nd place while others skate clean. Add to the fact that it's Canadians getting jipped in both situations and it being held in Canada, and then people wonder why so many say figure skating (or its judging, rather) is a sham.

    I think the problem though from this pairs competition is even fans of figure skating have a hard time processing how three triple jumps turned to doubles, a two-footed throw and a fall can place ahead of clean skates (not just overall, but in the actual FS segment!), even with levels considered. And it's not like the Germans had a perfectly executed SP either, when both Canadian teams did.

    It's disheartening for any team - what's the point of competing when even if you go clean with big difficulty, those who make multiple major errors are still placed ahead of you?!
    There has to be something that a casual fan doesn't understand: (s)he wouldn't be a "casual" fan if (s)he could understand evrything watching just two competition throughout the season (or this sport would be too easy to unedrstand, and FS is not an easy sport to understand!)! If I watch a sport that I don't know for the first time, I don't expect to judge it, and if the results are not clear to me and I'm interested, I'll go and read the rules, so I can understand! Figure skating is a complex sport, not like many of those really popular (and easy to understand) sports, and it can't be easy to understand, that's also why I find it so beautiful!!

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I agree. The Germans are just smoother with all their movements, especially their transition, and more graceful. D/R have the tricks, but their execution is choppy and sometimes even sloppy; there isn't much transition between elements. Also, because Robin and Aljona aren't that different in height, their lines when they skate together are cleaner and more pleasing to the eye. Eric and Meagan are so different in size that they have little symmetry.

    If S/S hadn't done the 3A throw at the end of the program, D/R would have won silver. I think it was very gutsy of Aljona and Robin to go for it.
    If it were an American couple who lost the Silver medal to the Germans, you would be screaming bloody murder by now and demand an investigation.

  13. #388
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    I have to say i prefer M-T-M to D/R.

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    S&S basically throw a 3A to hang onto the silver position. Their risk paid off. They are my fave team ever but even I would have ranked them off the podium tonight.

    I prefer COP to 6.0 and I do think that this result is easily explainable to casual viewers after the firs outrage eraction ( Big tricks gain more points, fair enough) but it shows the main problem we have now: A skating program is the sum of its parts and the system sometimes fails big time to reflect that.

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Sour grapes popping up in perfect unison...why am I not surprised?

    The audience was booing the judges, not S/S...
    Ha ha, shoe on other foot for Canadians, as the French audience in Nice last year were also booing the judges' scores in men's final, but that didn't keep many Canadian fans from crying foul and claiming that Patrick was being booed and dissed. If you guys were so worried about how it made Patrick feel, don't you think the booing made S/S feel bad too? Yeah right, I know, short-sighted thinking, eh? Ever heard of this axiom: What's sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander!

    In any case, wallylutz, the sour grapes are coming from those who booed the judges' scoring of S/S performance.

    I happen to love D/R, but if shoe were on other foot as someone already pointed out, and D/R were 4-time World champions who made errors on a jump element and had crappy costumes and the wrong music but toughed it out all season and were deservedly taken down some notches from their SB score for fp at Worlds, but yet their lesser scores still allowed them to win over an inspired but not World beating performance by an up-and-coming team, would the Canadian audience still be booing??? Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

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