03-15-2013, 08:01 PM
Thank you, ImaginaryPogue. Although I don't agree that Canadians are bad and Americans good (we all have our bad apples), I do think the booing incidents are disappointing and disheartening.
I agree with your points about the Pairs.
03-15-2013, 08:09 PM
And honestly, I know you're more irritated at Kwong's hypocrisy and double standard, so my opening salvo was uncalled for.
Originally Posted by chuckm
03-15-2013, 10:01 PM
Agreed. I understand that spectators who boo are, generally, booing the scores and the officials who determined them, but with a skater or pair sitting in the kiss and cry while it happens, it can't help but be felt to be rather uncomfortably directed at the skaters themselves, which I think is completely unfair. I didn't like it when Chan's scores were booed and I don't like it now with S/S.
Originally Posted by chuckm
It's too bad V/T's magnificent performance has been somewhat overshadowed. Because that? That was what I've been missing in pairs skating for a long time. V/T were stunning — they're just quality, quality, quality. That section where they did mirroring spirals down the length of the ice? Gorgeous. That triple twist was out of this world. Just stunning. But...can someone please give this incredible pair choreography that matches the level of their talent? Please? It's not that it was bad, it just wasn't special enough, IMO, for what this team is.
I'm thrilled for D/R. They are fighters and got all out for the most difficult technical elements. I confess, though, that I love M-T/M more. Hopefully with this worlds result they'll start to get a bit more respect in terms of scores. I think their stock was definitely affected by their disastrous season last year. Great to see such a comeback. For me, they had the second best FS of the night.
03-15-2013, 10:36 PM
Oh gosh, Michelle Kwan Pell is someone everyone should aspire to be like. As far as 2002, pfft, Michelle is on to another chapter of her life which still involves hard work and giving every ounce of who she is to inspire others. Even Irina was inspired by the example and excellence and magic Michelle wrought on the ice. Apples and oranges re who should have won sp in SLC. Someone else will say a skater other than Irina or Michelle should have won the sp. Who cares at this point?
Originally Posted by pangtongfan
Irina had her backers and Michelle had hers. If 2002 Olympics had taken place in Russia, Irina most likely would have won gold in the end, instead of Sarah. When Michelle came out to skate her exhibition performance in 2002, the crowd gave her a standing ovation even before her transcendent performance of Fields of Gold. The memory of that performance and of many of MK's performances through the years are worth much more than a potful of Olympic gold medals.
03-15-2013, 10:45 PM
PAIRS FREE SKATE - RESULT & VIDEOS (Updated)
1. Tatiana VOLOSOZHAR & Maxim TRANKOV (RUS) - 225.71 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, Medal Ceremony, Interview
2. Aliona SAVCHENKO & Robin SZOLKOWY (GER) - 205.56 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
3. Meagan DUHAMEL & Eric RADFORD (CAN) - 204.56 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
4. Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS & Dylan MOSCOVITCH (CAN) - 199.50 Free Skate
5. Qing PANG & Jian TONG (CHN) - 194.64 Free Skate
6. Yuko KAVAGUTI & Alexander SMIRNOV (RUS) - 191.59 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
7. Vera BAZAROVA & Yuri LARIONOV (RUS) - 184.72 Free Skate
8. Vanessa JAMES & Morgan CIPRES (FRA) - 180.17 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
9. Alexa SCIMECA & Chris KNIERIM (USA) - 173.51 Free Skate
10. Stefania BERTON & Ondrej HOTAREK (ITA) - 171.77 Free Skate
11. Cheng PENG & Hao ZHANG (CHN) - 167.18 Free Skate
12. Wenjing SUI & Cong HAN (CHN) - 165.89 Free Skate
13. Marissa CASTELLI & Simon SHNAPIR (USA) - 164.00 Free Skate
14. Nicole DELLA MONICA & Matteo GUARISE (ITA) - 136.03 Free Skate
15. Stacey KEMP & David KING (GBR) - 133.56 Free Skate
16. Mari VARTMANN & Aaron VAN CLEAVE (GER) - 133.12 Free Skate
03-15-2013, 10:49 PM
The booing was a bit more mild for S/S here than in Nice because after all, it was not that huge a deal here re silver medal placement, except for Canadian fans. Even D/R are more realistic than Canadian fans in realizing they were lucky to be a few decimal points ahead of S/S in the sp, which was more IMO about the judges sending Aliona and Robin a message.
Originally Posted by rain
The booing in Nice was louder and much more disruptive and it continued into the medal ceremony. Another difference is that the Nice crowd was not booing because they felt a French skater wuzrobbed. It was because they felt Dai Takahashi from Japan was wrongfully denied a deserved World championship gold medal over Patrick Chan of Canada who made too many errors in both programs but still won. The Nice crowd was mesmerized by Dai's performances and couldn't understand why Patrick was rewarded over him with disruptive mistakes.
The two situations and circumstances are hugely different but if it makes you feel better to think they're the same, I get why.
And don't cry for V/T! What's the tears about? They are the current pairs team pets of ISU and Russian fed, and the odds-on favorites for pairs gold in Sochi. V/T certainly are not being overshadowed by anything that occurred in London, Ontario. You've got that wrong too.
And there you go, crying over M-T/M not being on the podium. Jeez, like I said a couple of times already, what do you want, your cake, the icing, a cherry-on-top, and eat it too?! The Worlds isn't even over yet and you guys are acting out cuz you can't have two pairs teams on the podium. And believe me, that ain't gonna happen in Sochi either, unless some top teams who are not Canadian incur injuries and don't compete. Patrick has won with falls again, and Kevin Reynolds had a good showing. V/M is gonna medal whether it's gold or silver, and KO is threatening for the podium too her first year at Worlds in the senior ranks no less. Still, some of you whiners are just so unhappy all the time and over-anxious and greedy.
03-15-2013, 11:01 PM
Wow, you are seriously what the ignore button is for, aren't you? So here you go...
Originally Posted by Art&Sport
03-15-2013, 11:19 PM
Awww, now, Canada and Canadians don't suck, but sometimes over-protective Patrick Chan fans do, and so do his SS-happy judges usually so eager to gift him when he makes mistakes, and to set records for him when he happens to skate clean. And I think cheese connoisseur, PJ Kwong, and many V/M fans tend to have a sucky attitude toward anyone they think could possibly threaten or who doesn't bow down to their do-no-wrong skaters.
Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue
This factor doesn't make me dislike Canada or Canadians in general, just some of the attitudes of some of Canada's figure skating fans in particular. Any skater I'm enamored of, it makes no difference to me what their nationality is. Of course, I will root for many U.S. skaters who I'm gonna know more about as a U.S. fan, but as the skating world and world in general has grown smaller, the boundaries of country and politics don't seem to make a whole lot of sense anymore. The skating community is so intertwined now too in a good way. I think the sport should be less about politics in any case, but I doubt that is going away any time soon, if ever.
In any case, an example of how we are all truthfully one big happy (if bickering) family, there was an article in the Canadian press which wrote about the fact that Meryl Davis' grandmother on one side of her family has Canadian roots in the London, Ontario area.
03-15-2013, 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by Art&Sport
Very well said, especialy regarding PJ Kwong who tries to elevate V&M and Chan to god all time perfection status, and gets tizzy at anyone who dares to contest the notion.
03-15-2013, 11:45 PM
If it's any consolation, I genuinely think the same thing of you, your attitudes about American and international skaters, and how as soon as any international skater gets higher marks than a specific American skater, it's because of politicking and otherwise. So I guess were are one big, bickering family after all. That said, my comments you refer to are juvenile at best, and I wish I had been more tactful.
Originally Posted by Art&Sport
03-16-2013, 12:08 AM
Then you better throw away your phone because that's a Canadian invention over 100 years ago.
Originally Posted by suzukifan27
03-16-2013, 01:23 AM
What a night!!!
1) KS - the most beautiful program of the night... even the audience...the Canadians were ready to give them the podium and standing O but for the mistakes...I wish Moscvina took some young promising couple or maybe BL that style would suit them...
2) MMT - I really like them, more than DR but I think that's the national placement as well...they're the second pair.
3) DR - definetely deserved the silver... but since the protocols say they had mistakes...ok...anyway, a deserved medal.
4) SS - another empty program, there's no spark.
5) VT - what a performance...how brilliant technically they are... and those elements do deserve +3... if they don't what way do you have to do that??? Stupid fall but even charming))) The score - HUGE... I was WOW??? I don't think they should have cracked 149 yet)))
1) VT - with a big lead
2) DR - with a margin
03-16-2013, 02:34 AM
After lurking for a while, I figured as a Canadian I should put my two cents in.
Originally Posted by jfdw
I was in the audience. I can't say who was booing around the arena as a whole, but I'd wager confidently that the vast majority were Canadians (if only because the majority of those present were Canadians). I cheered quite loudly, actually, not because I loved S/S's program, but I was frankly disgusted by how it was received. We all know exactly, without having to think about it, how Canadian fans would have reacted if the situation were the reverse and a Canadian pair had eked out an unlikely victory after a tough performance. There would be no boos, and probably no griping about bad judging. This isn't even a hypothetical question: witness the reactions to Chan's performance a few hours later. It's ludicrous to think that a Canadian audience would loudly boo judges who had delivered an unfairly high score to a Canadian skater(s). People were cranky that their team lost and the judges were a good target to aim their anger at.
03-16-2013, 02:37 AM
Yep, good points. We're all human and we get so identified as a human species with stuff we are emotionally attached to that gives us pleasure or pain. Sure I've had some knee-jerk reactions, but I genuinely love and pull for a lot of Canadian skaters, and many are some of my favorite skaters. I love S/P and hate how they are so often picked on for what they had no control over whatsoever at SLC. They and B/S were the victims, as well as all the skaters are victims to the system, including Patrick Chan.
Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue
I happen to really enjoy and admire D/R, and M-T/M have great choreo this season. I didn't like it tho' when Dube/ Davison were held up along with another Canadian pairs team at 2010 Olympics over Evora/ Ladwig who skated better than those teams. And I also didn't like it when Patrick Chan and Stephane Lambiel were held up over Johnny Weir when both of the former made numerous errors in both their programs at 2010 Olympics. You could probably pick out instances where you didn't like some occurrences/ results either. That doesn't keep me from admiring Lambiel and I loved watching Dube/ Davison and I rooted for them when they skated well. I also rooted for Jessica with her new partner. I've already mentioned other current and former Canadian skaters on my list of favorite skaters of all time. I don't like over-hype and favoritism whether it's an American, Canadian, or any other skater. Its a fact of figure skating, that fairness often goes out the window under any judging system due to subjectivity and politics.
Even if there were problems and unfairness with 6.0, at the least there were often more interesting, engaging and artistically unique programs to enjoy. I don't blame the skaters for the problems. And I suppose it's never gonna be a scenario where fans always get along, because of our differences in perspectives and experiences, likes and dislikes. It might be helpful though if the more overzealous fans who love Patrick would stop acting as if he always deserves the scores he receives. Even he might benefit from a serious wake-up call.
Not sure what suzukifan27 means about Canadians having "not many things except FS to be proud of and clinch to." That's a ridiculous statement. Canada has loads of wonderful natural resources, sports teams, different cultures, places to go and things to do, history to uncover, fascinating people to meet. Wake up and smell the roses. We all need to wake up and realize that figure skating is not life or death, but just something we are emotionally attached to for different reasons, not always good ones. Putting it all into perspective is difficult, but doing that may help us enjoy fs more. For example, it might help to try not putting so much weight on what the judges think in the first place.
03-16-2013, 05:19 AM
Canadians should have been 2nd and 3rd in any order between the 2 teams. S&S should have been left of the podium with the 3 big errors they had. what a disasterous judging.