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Thread: 2013 worlds pairs FS

  1. #466
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    I was there and the scores got booed , not the skaters ! I was one of the many that did boo the scores and feel very justified in doing so . They were given a great applause at the medal ceremony. PCS are nothing but a newer way to hold up skaters !!!

  2. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmtech1 View Post
    I was there and the scores got booed , not the skaters ! I was one of the many that did boo the scores and feel very justified in doing so . They were given a great applause at the medal ceremony. PCS are nothing but a newer way to hold up skaters !!!
    I am glad to hear this! I was there for the short and saw the end of the long in Skate Canada house. I reported elsewhere that I was so proud that fans were supportive of all skaters and was told that I was wrong. I wondered if I was and went and checked the FS online and had the impression that it was the scores that got booed. Glad to have this confirmed. People in SCH were all excited at the end of the event that 2 Canadians had done so well. No grumbling. And then Dylan Moscovitch came in to huge applause!

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    Well as much as I preferred the two Canadians I can see why Ssquared won silver; just like Kostner getting silver and Chan's gold. The uneducated world to skating may not understanding COP but diehards or blowhards lol do. (they just may not like to admit it double lol) But the more we whine and complain i am not sure we are helping the sport survive. when you think about it; it wasn't a well skated world's. The pairs were not "special" and no one was whistle clean - lots of bobbles at least.

  4. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    The uneducated world to skating may not understanding COP but diehards or blowhards lol do. (they just may not like to admit it double lol) But the more we whine and complain i am not sure we are helping the sport survive. when you think about it; it wasn't a well skated world's. The pairs were not "special" and no one was whistle clean - lots of bobbles at least.
    Well, I consider myself as a diehard. I do understand COP. Do I agree with all its assumptions and how it is applied? No. It does not make me uneducated.

  5. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinga View Post
    Well, I consider myself as a diehard. I do understand COP. Do I agree with all its assumptions and how it is applied? No. It does not make me uneducated.
    I don't understand it too!!! And I also can't see the mystic skating skills( balance, flow,direction,sureness, speed)..I wasn't skater, I can see the speed..

  6. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinga View Post
    Well, I consider myself as a diehard. I do understand COP. Do I agree with all its assumptions and how it is applied? No. It does not make me uneducated.
    I do understand the new system and when you make so many mistakes it definitely affects the program as a whole . When you have all these errors technically it should obviously lower both scores !!!

  7. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmtech1 View Post
    I was there and the scores got booed , not the skaters ! I was one of the many that did boo the scores and feel very justified in doing so . They were given a great applause at the medal ceremony. PCS are nothing but a newer way to hold up skaters !!!
    If you expect me to believe those boos would have been as loud, or present at all, if the Canadians had been given a 1 point edge in the same situation, just the two countries reversed, you're kidding yourself. So while you may be an exception in this regard, the fact is, most people were booing the skaters, not just the judges.

    In contrast, nobody seemed to mind the way the scoring system worked later that evening when Patrick Chan emerged victorious after a routine that earned him a half-hearted standing ovation in an arena which was previously handing them out to any Canadian capable of tying their own skates. I was there for both, and I don't recall hearing any boos then.

  8. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by davogt View Post
    If you expect me to believe those boos would have been as loud, or present at all, if the Canadians had been given a 1 point edge in the same situation, just the two countries reversed, you're kidding yourself. So while you may be an exception in this regard, the fact is, most people were booing the skaters, not just the judges.

    In contrast, nobody seemed to mind the way the scoring system worked later that evening when Patrick Chan emerged victorious after a routine that earned him a half-hearted standing ovation in an arena which was previously handing them out to any Canadian capable of tying their own skates. I was there for both, and I don't recall hearing any boos then.
    Wow !
    Obviously many people do not understand the scoring system and the fact that the final score is the total of 2 programs not just the free skate !!!

  9. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by davogt View Post
    In contrast, nobody seemed to mind the way the scoring system worked later that evening when Patrick Chan emerged victorious after a routine that earned him a half-hearted standing ovation in an arena which was previously handing them out to any Canadian capable of tying their own skates. I was there for both, and I don't recall hearing any boos then.
    Firstly, you're looking at two different scenarios, the first is where D/R had a 2-point lead after the SP over the Germans (and a deserved one at that), and then boo after the Germans make three obvious errors in their FS and still get a higher score than D/R. I agree that D/R's skating is not up to par, but you can't imagine that a program with 3 major errors should score above an almost clean program. In the second case with Ten/Chan, Ten DID score above Chan in the FS due to Chan's multitude of errors (even if the quads made up for those errors somewhat). He won the FS, but placed 2nd overall due to Chan's lead. People are saying Chan's lead in the SP was unmerited, but IMO, the gap between him and Ten (who I thought was a tad overscored in his PCS in both segments) should have been about 7 points. Even the Eurosport guys conceded that Chan should probably win due to his lead, and superior program.

    The Germans were actually trailing, and while they did have superior programs PCS-wise, both programs were technically inferior to the Canadians. It's hard to say if the Germans' decision is easier to stomach since it's not like they had an SP lead to justify winning with a flawed FS (as if it's hard enough justifying placing above others with a flawed freeskate).

  10. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by davogt View Post

    In contrast, nobody seemed to mind the way the scoring system worked later that evening when Patrick Chan emerged victorious after a routine that earned him a half-hearted standing ovation in an arena which was previously handing them out to any Canadian capable of tying their own skates. I was there for both, and I don't recall hearing any boos then.
    The thing is that if Chan was victorious without falls he would not have got half-hearted ovation**. With mostly Canadian audience it is equal to loud boos.
    How can ovation be half-hearted? If it is half-hearted then it is not ovation, is it?

  11. #476
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    The standing ovation for Patrick was because it was on home ice. Obviously home ice fans will give standing ovations to their national skaters, let alone a 2-time, now 3-time, World Champion.

    I had a hard time explaining to other folks that Chan won because of the SP lead, but I think even the non-skating fans could see that Chan was a much better skater than Ten, especially towards the later half of Ten's program, when it was more apparent he was just skating from element to element. The resounding comment was "Yeah, Chan's a better skater but he fell and the other guy didn't.", to which you have to justify to the lamens viewers as "Well, yeah... he lost the freeskate because of that, but had a huge lead after a perfect short program, and his quads in the freeskate saved his gold."

  12. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    The standing ovation for Patrick was because it was on home ice. Obviously home ice fans will give standing ovations to their national skaters, let alone a 2-time, now 3-time, World Champion.

    I had a hard time explaining to other folks that Chan won because of the SP lead, but I think even the non-skating fans could see that Chan was a much better skater than Ten, especially towards the later half of Ten's program, when it was more apparent he was just skating from element to element. The resounding comment was "Yeah, Chan's a better skater but he fell and the other guy didn't.", to which you have to justify to the lamens viewers as "Well, yeah... he lost the freeskate because of that, but had a huge lead after a perfect short program, and his quads in the freeskate saved his gold."
    The skating ability is so far ahead of most of the top guys , he doesn't waste any beat of his music . His programs are pieces of art and that is where the less knowledgeable skating fans are not getting it ! Patrick does not just skate down the ice into jumps like some of his haters (Plushenko and especially Joubert) this is one of the big differences and results in his scores ! Seriously if people want to diss Patrick please get educated on all of figure skating , including levels , GOE .....

  13. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmtech1 View Post
    The skating ability is so far ahead of most of the top guys , he doesn't waste any beat of his music . His programs are pieces of art and that is where the less knowledgeable skating fans are not getting it ! Patrick does not just skate down the ice into jumps like some of his haters (Plushenko and especially Joubert) this is one of the big differences and results in his scores ! Seriously if people want to diss Patrick please get educated on all of figure skating , including levels , GOE .....
    Plushenko and Joubert are not Chan's haters! Plushenko doesn't hate anybody, Chan, Yagudin or Lysacek and they don't hate Plushenko either. Nor Joubert. I doubt you´re very educated on FS since all you do is to repeat some clichés from media.

  14. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharmtech1 View Post
    The skating ability is so far ahead of most of the top guys , he doesn't waste any beat of his music . His programs are pieces of art and that is where the less knowledgeable skating fans are not getting it ! Patrick does not just skate down the ice into jumps like some of his haters (Plushenko and especially Joubert) this is one of the big differences and results in his scores ! Seriously if people want to diss Patrick please get educated on all of figure skating , including levels , GOE .....
    I think people disregard pieces of art if there's a giant smear or two across them, namely the falls. It's really hard to appreciate his programs (or any program, really) that is laden with errors. Based on his SP and quads, superior skating skills over Ten, and his major competitors bombing in the short (and making errors in the free), I think Chan deserved to win.

    However, it's really difficult to say a program with errors should get the PCS marks for performance/execution that he got. It would be like giving him a 5.1 for technical merit (the maximum IMO, considering he had two falls, a step out, and a doubled jump), and a 5.9 for artistic. This would still place above a lesser skater with a clean, balanced program who got 5.5 and 5.5.

    Again, if we're to treat figure skating as a sport, somebody with 3 or 4 major errors should not theoretically place ahead of somebody who went clean or made a minor error. The Germans being placed over the Canadians is MUCH harder to justify than Chan's win, and only when you delve into the precise details of the program - GOE, UR's, etc. - can you actually justify to somebody. I think the biggest issue skating fans have with the Germans placing over the Canadians is that the rest of the program really wasn't skated as well as the Germans can/have in the past (they seemed deflated due to the errors), yet their PCS didn't take a hit.

  15. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinga View Post
    Well, I consider myself as a diehard. I do understand COP. Do I agree with all its assumptions and how it is applied? No. It does not make me uneducated.
    The problem isn't whether you agree or not, it's whether you understand where the scores are derived from. The casual viewer will not understand underrotations or levels, and this makes it hard for skating to thrive as a spectator sport and viewership.

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