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Thread: 2013 Worlds Men LP

  1. #1051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Sorry but this is generic ranting without any actual thought in it. It basically says: 'I am angry.'

    The suggestion that ISU should do something just because people are incapable of critical thinking and do not understand neither figure skating, nor the judging system is laughable.

    Yes, let's let the angry mob dictate the results, that would be much better.
    This kind of snobbish holier than thou and close minded attitude will only help further turn fans away from the sport and help to kill an already dead sport. Like it or not figure skating needs casual fans and tons of them, and if they continue to be alienated and mystified by what is going on, figure skating will be taken off the life support it is already on completely.

  2. #1052
    ISU, stop promoting 2-foot skating!
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    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblespiral View Post
    Modified COP according to this thread

    TES

    A. Increase fall deduction and -GOE for quads
    That would mean skaters would take much less risks and we would see easier programs.

    And then people would complain about the lack of difficulty.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblespiral View Post
    B. 4t fall< good 3lz or 3f
    I agree. But quads are only so overvalued because everybody whined about them not being rewarded enough.

    Well, you got what you wanted, people.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblespiral View Post
    C. Put +GOE for triples back to +1, +2, +3
    Why? I think quality should be rewarded over difficulty.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblespiral View Post
    D. GOE bullets: meets all for +3, 3/4 for +2, and 1/4-1/2 for +1
    No element could ever get +3 then, really. But I do agree judges should be more strict and not hand out those marks like candy.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblespiral View Post
    E. Fall GOE is -3 regardless of other factors
    You should consider everything and not just the landing.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblespiral View Post
    F. No postive GOE for visible errors
    Just because some errors are visible and others aren't doesn't make give them greater magnitude. And you should consider EVERYTHING when judging an element and not just the errors.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblespiral View Post
    G. Cap PCS depending on errors (ie minor errors capped at 8, 1 fall 7.5, ect)
    This way you are punishing the skaters twice. Elements are elements, presentation is presentation.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblespiral View Post
    H. Eliminate the corridor
    Definitely. It means judges are marking as they expect others to mark and not what they see.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblespiral View Post
    I. Get rid of anonymous judging
    That would make the politics ten times worse. Do people really not understand that? It would create deals, tit for tat (you marked our skater low, you're screwed), etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by invisiblespiral View Post
    K. SP PCS is .8x for all
    I think that FS should probably carry a little more weight, yes.

  3. #1053
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    OK, so after a good night's sleep here is what I think.

    There is no point in blaming Patrick Chan for anything. He tried his best; it wan't his day.

    There is no point in blaming the judges. They gave their marks according to the rules.

    Figure skating has flushed itself down the toilet in the last decade. Apologists for the CoP say this is a good thing, offering the same lame excuses season after season. You reap what you sow.
    Last edited by Mathman; 03-16-2013 at 10:44 AM.

  4. #1054
    ISU, stop promoting 2-foot skating!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    So I guess folks like Todd Eldridge, Johnny Weir, and Christina Gao just don't understand good skating? The issue here is many think that multiple glaring errors should effect your results. Feeling this way doesn't mean you don't understand the sport. Its not like Patrick had one fall and was brilliant elsewhere.
    But errors do affect your result. And yes, other than the falls, Chan did skate really well.

    Errors do not mean everything else suddenly stops to count. There's loads of things that were excellent about Chan's skating (those two quads were just perfect, for example, I have never see a quad executed so well before).

    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    This kind of snobbish holier than thou and close minded attitude will only help further turn fans away from the sport and help to kill an already dead sport. Like it or not figure skating needs casual fans and tons of them, and if they continue to be alienated and mystified by what is going on, figure skating will be taken off the life support it is already on completely.
    I understand your point but this is sport and not an entertainment show. People would always complain about the results, whatever the judging system, just because they liked Skater A more than Skater B.

    I don't really see how this problem could get resolved.

    I really wouldn't like to see skating simplified and bad skating being rewarded. And by bad skating, I don't mean mistakes. I mean poor technique, lack of difficulty and so on and so forth.

  5. #1055
    One does not simply skate into Sochi MaiKatze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Watching Hanyu after he finished his FS was the most painful thing that I have ever seen in fs. I thought he would need an oxygen tank to breathe and some assitance to leave the ice. When they showed the overjoyed Orser I almost puked. On the other hand, maybe like a true Canadian patriot he was indeed happy. Afterall thanks to his coaching policy one of PChan's rival was removed from the medal scene.
    Dai- take a rest I would say. But he is already scheduled for a charity show in Kobe, and then WTT, then again ... It's gonna be the last competitive season for him so everyone is trying to get as much cash as possible from this milch cow. It's impossible to deal with this reality in Japan where Dai didn't have any holiday off-season. Perhaps NM was right afterall when he said to R-radio that next season Dai will be spending much time in Novogorsk, i.e. far from all this crap and JSF.


    Schizophrenic event in general.
    Who knows what would've happened if Yuzuru had stayed with Nanami Abe. I don't think he will leave Orser, though. Poor Daisuke, so much to do, he should rest. While I think it's good for him to go to Russia and get away from it all, I'm conflicted. It might be good for Sochi that he is with NM. But in reality I just want Dai to leave him, and think the decision to go back to NM was a bad one.

  6. #1056
    Kwan's vodka dealer VIETgrlTerifa's Avatar
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    I don't see why punishing skaters twice is so bad in itself. You have to look at whether the proposed deductions for major mistakes are going to be more accurate in reflecting what the skater produced over what we have now.

    I just it's funny that some are so nonchalant about big falls in a routine (and multiple falls) and can live with a performance that is mired in them winning a competition, but once you talk about underrotation and fluting or lipping, then it's the end of figure skating.

    I mean, is anyone complaining that transitions are basically being rewarded twice (in jump GOE and in a separate category in PCS)?

  7. #1057
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    Well Ziggy, you have to admit that what I wrote about falls vs. under-rotations and pops has been borne out by what happened.

    Also, I don't agree that removing the anonymity and holding judges accountable for their scores would "make the politics ten times worse." The unspoken assumption you are making is that the amount of politicking/deal-making is significantly lower now, but is that indeed the case? I don't know, but I don't think you can assume it is. The point is with anonymous judging we never will know.

  8. #1058
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I love Canada!

    How can you not love the federation who is so good at politiking for their skaters in every dirty way possible. I wouldn't be that sure on D/W fans' place with FD outcome. SC is probably preparing the bed for Voir now to let them rest before each lift. And then there is Osmond..
    D/W will have to be squeky clean in the FD, they will be nitpicked in every move, one small lift mistakes could cost them the Gold medal
    then there is Osmond who is a lock for the bronze medal skating in Canada

  9. #1059
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    That would mean skaters would take much less risks and we would see easier programs.

    And then people would complain about the lack of difficulty.



    I agree. But quads are only so overvalued because everybody whined about them not being rewarded enough.

    Well, you got what you wanted, people.



    Why? I think quality should be rewarded over difficulty.

    Isn't that exactly what raising triple GOE does?


    No element could ever get +3 then, really. But I do agree judges should be more strict and not hand out those marks like candy.



    You should consider everything and not just the landing.

    I don't agree with this, the list is based on people's comments in this thread



    Just because some errors are visible and others aren't doesn't make give them greater magnitude. And you should consider EVERYTHING when judging an element and not just the errors.

    See answer for E



    This way you are punishing the skaters twice. Elements are elements, presentation is presentation.

    I also don't agree with this either, except this thread is full of people who only want clean skates to win (the list is according to the thread, Ziggy

    Definitely. It means judges are marking as they expect others to mark and not what they see.

    ITA


    That would make the politics ten times worse. Do people really not understand that? It would create deals, tit for tat (you marked our skater low, you're screwed), etc.

    Why?



    I think that FS should probably carry a little more weight, yes.
    My responses in bold

  10. #1060
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    OK, so after a good night's sleep here is what I think.

    There is no point in blaming Patrick Chan for anything. He tried his best; it wan't his day.

    There is no point in blaming the judges. They gave their marks according to the rules.

    Figure skating has flushed itself down the toilet in the last decade. Apologists for the CoP say this is a good thing, offering the same lame excuses season after season. You reap what you sow.
    There is a lot of truth in your post Mathman, 71 pages and 1061 posts and still counting. lol

  11. #1061
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I love Canada!


    Watching Hanyu after he finished his FS was the most painful thing that I have ever seen in fs. I thought he would need an oxygen tank to breathe and some assitance to leave the ice. When they showed the overjoyed Orser I almost puked. On the other hand, maybe like a true Canadian patriot he was indeed happy. Afterall thanks to his coaching policy one of PChan's rival was removed from the medal scene.

    Schizophrenic event in general.

  12. #1062
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    Just my 2 cents on this whole drama:

    The simple sum of SP+FS points is NOT working. Patrick basically just won the title on his huge lead after the SP (and it shouldnt been that big, but thats another issue). Denis Ten had an excellent SP placing a very deservend 2nd and then had by far and undoubtedly the best LP of the night and STILL did not win the competition. That is simply wrong and shows how the "racking of points" system miserably fails to reflect who was the all around best skater. The FP should always weight more, that way we would avoid having such a bad performance getting away with the title.

  13. #1063
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    How can you not love the federation who is so good at politiking for their skaters in every dirty way possible.
    Same old rants. Same old rants...

    Everyone is ready to hand in Takahashi or Hanyu the World title before the competition. But they didn't take it. Your favorite was self-bombed, and fell into sinkhole. It was his own doing.

    Now everyone is ready to trash Chan with the only possible straw left - Ten - who has not been in the top mix in the last...what ...5 years? How pathetic!

    I wish to read the same rants after the Olympics!

  14. #1064
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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    Ziggy knows what he is talking about! .
    He just believes people are fooled by his 'knowlege'. LOL. Insanity.

  15. #1065
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    Quote Originally Posted by momskate View Post
    Poor Patric Chan. People, it's not his fault that he got the first place!
    If he has any decency, he would just quit the sport. Nobody except for a few rabid 'fans' are buying into his skating.

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