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Thread: 2013 Worlds Men LP

  1. #1171
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Yes. The IJS is not working out.
    It's working out as it was designed though - people point to the numbers and say, see, this guy SHOULD have won, the numbers say so!

  2. #1172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    ^^ LOL at the desperate attempts to prove that Patrick deserved the title. So, Chan was brilliant, his falls and mistakes didn't affect the program, his excellence in falling was just beautiful and justified his high pcs, 2 points higher the any other guy, and 4 points higher than Takhashi who is a brilliant performer and artist (who also made mistakes). Ten on the other hand, was the slow, concentrated one and didn't really perform?
    Seriously, keep your delusions, there's nothing one can do about it.
    Right. The artist who has to delute his program for the big jumps. Seriously, Takahashi jumps out of his performance often enough if you are not blindly worshiping him. Now who is delusional and desperate? I'm perfectly content.

  3. #1173
    Kwan's vodka dealer VIETgrlTerifa's Avatar
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    Maybe Patrick should do the same as well. He consistently has trouble performing his planned elements. However, Jeremy Abbott gets heavily criticized for the same thing. Of course, Abbott can't land beautiful quads the way Chan can now.

  4. #1174
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    It's working out as it was designed though - people point to the numbers and say, see, this guy SHOULD have won, the numbers say so!
    I know! It's iike:

    Fan #1: "Hey, what's going on, I though the other guy skated better."

    Fan #2: "No, see, it's right here in the protocols. The first place guy got a 1.4 GOE points for his triple flip and 8.75 for choreography.

    Fan #1: "Well, I still thought the other guy was better."

    Fan #2 (patiently): No, the second place guy only got 0.14 GOE on his triple loop and 8.25 for P&E. Now do you understand?"

    The two fans go their separate ways. Fan #1 thinks fan #2 is being deliberately obtuse in pretending not to understand what "I think the other guy skated better" means.

    The second fan thinks it is the first fan who is being stubborn, pretending not to know what 2+2 - 4 means.

    (By the way, the exchange between Bluebonnet and me on this thread is not of this type. I thought Chan skated eh?, Bluebonnet thought he skated great, apart from the jump errors. That's cool. No harm, no foul.)

  5. #1175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Right. The artist who has to delute his program for the big jumps. Seriously, Takahashi jumps out of his performance often enough if you are not blindly worshiping him. Now who is delusional and desperate? I'm perfectly content.
    Chan looked completely off in his performance after so many mistakes, but yet he got better pcs than anyone else, including Takahashi. Well, I wonder if the many skaters who made their opinion loud about this, figure skating experts, most of the international fans and commentators are all delusional and desperate like me as well. But you are right, a real Pchan fan acts just like him, so we expect you to defend his titles to the impossible level and say things like "his competitors also made mistakes, nobody understands the cop and blablabla"
    So, as I said before, keep the ilusions, Patrick was the real winner, and it was a really incredible and beautiful victory, as most of the times he wins! No cheating at all!

  6. #1176
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    Chan was given the title because
    (1) it was in Canada
    (2) some judges wanted to activate the jinx to miss the Olympic gold medal
    (3) they didn't want to make Denis Ten the Olympic favorite (even for a medal)

  7. #1177
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    It's working out as it was designed though - people point to the numbers and say, see, this guy SHOULD have won, the numbers say so!
    Isn't that the objectivity?!

    I actually set my heart before the worlds and rooted for Chan to fall down the podium. I'd be very very happy if he did. Why? Because I want him to find a real coach. Sorry, Chan fans. But the numbers which I largely agree with said he won. Oh, well, what can you say? He won. Damn!

  8. #1178
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Isn't that the objectivity?!
    They're just subjective numbers for GOE and PCS like 5.1 or 5.5 or 6.0 was a number in the old system.

  9. #1179
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    They're just subjective numbers for GOE and PCS like 5.1 or 5.5 or 6.0 was a number in the old system.
    No one can avoid subjectivity completely in anything involved with performing art. The scores are not all based on GOE and PCS. BV is pretty objective.

  10. #1180
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    No one can avoid subjectivity completely in anything involved with performing art. The scores are not all based on GOE and PCS. BV is pretty objective.
    I think that highlights yet another problem with the IJS.

    Patrick got full base value of 11.00 for his unsuccessful attempt at a 3F+1Lo+3S combination. He lost only 1.30 in GOE for a whopping 9.70 points net. (I know, I know -- he got in the rotations).

    He got base value of 6.60 for an under-rotated triple Axel with a fall, and he got a base value of 6.00 for a fall on a triple Lutz. Even after UR penalty, maximum negative GOE, and fall penalties, he still netted 5.50 points for the two. (I know, I know -- he rotated the Lutz before falling and he got at least most of the way around on the Axel before falling.)

    That is a lot of points for failed tricks that did nothing but mar the program. (But according the IJS, they didn't mar the program much -- just a couple of points in overall PCS.)

    (Again, I am not faulting Patrick -- he didn't fall on purpose, and he didn't design the CoP.)

  11. #1181
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    PS.

    As for the argument that Patrick deserved to win because everybody knows his skating skills are superior to Dennis Ten's -- no, I don't buy that at all. I don't care if you are Superman, you still have to deliver the goods when your name is called.

  12. #1182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think that highlights yet another problem with the IJS.

    Patrick got full base value of 11.00 for his unsuccessful attempt at a 3F+1Lo+3S combination. He lost only 1.30 in GOE for a whopping 9.70 points net. (I know, I know -- he got in the rotations).

    He got base value of 6.60 for an under-rotated triple Axel with a fall, and he got a base value of 6.00 for a fall on a triple Lutz. Even after UR penalty, maximum negative GOE, and fall penalties, he still netted 5.50 points for the two. (I know, I know -- he rotated the Lutz before falling and he got at least most of the way around on the Axel before falling.)

    That is a lot of points for failed tricks that did nothing but mar the program. (But according the IJS, they didn't mar the program much -- just a couple of points in overall PCS.)

    (Again, I am not faulting Patrick -- he didn't fall on purpose, and he didn't design the CoP.)
    I'm confused, Math. Weren't these rules for everyone equally? Or they were just giving Patrick the extra BV?

  13. #1183
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    It is the rules (and their application) that I am finding fault with, not Patrick.

    Just because the rules apply to everyone, that does not make them good rules.
    Last edited by Mathman; 03-28-2013 at 12:36 PM.

  14. #1184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Can you explain this:

    Ten's SP:

    SS range 7.50 - 8.75 average SS=8.07

    Ten's LP:

    SS range 8.25 - 9.50 average SS=8.54

    Will he improve that much in SS in two days?

    In fact, every single category in Ten's PCS "has improved" in two days. TR from SP 7.89 to LP 8.43. PE from SP 8.39 to LP 8.89. CH from SP 8.11 to LP 8.86. IN from SP 8.29 to LP 8.86.

    On the contrary, Chan's every single category in PCS was lowered from SP to LP (rightfully, of course). However, if you see the rising in PCS from SP to LP is normal, as in Ten's case, Chan's abnormal lowered PCS from SP to LP has already factored in the mistakes he had in his LP.




    There was only one judge who gave Chan 9.5 for SS. Why don't you say that there was another judge who gave him 8.75 for SS?

    Will Ten's 9.50 and 9.00 in SS in LP be totally off the wall too?


    ETA:

    There was NO 9.5 in PE in Chan's LP. The highest he got in PE was from only one judge. That judge gave him 9.25. The lowest PE he got was from one judge who gave him 8.00.
    You make absolute sense.
    The door was opened and no one went through it.
    The Japanese team appeared decimated and skated very poorly for whatever reason. It was sad to see . I was looking forward to a wonderful men's event and didnt get it.
    Ten was consistent in both programs and his PCS shouldnt really have jumped so much. It seemed that the judges gifted him the higher PCS to award the free skate to him and to make a point to Chan.
    The quality of Skating between Patrick and Denis is night and day in Patricks favour.

  15. #1185
    Kwan's vodka dealer VIETgrlTerifa's Avatar
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    I had no idea Denis Ten became Surya Bonaly.

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