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Thread: Should Gorshkov be fired?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    I was wondering what the conversation with Tat and Mishin will be.
    I am sure it would be a great education in delivering Russian insults in the frostiest ways possible, particularly since Mishin was pulling for Menshov.

    Whoever said that the selectors deserved a slap over the wrist for sending Kovtun; no, they deserve a punch in the face.

  2. #17
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    Blame Plushenko. He was supposed to go to Worlds, win at least a silver medal, and get Russia three spots for the Men. He was injured, so Russia gets one.

    I&K have been a hot mess since they moved up to seniors. They have gone backwards under Morosov and they were assigned to him precisely because they weren't doing well under Zhulin, who had little patience for their lack of work ethic. They had better results and better placements under Zhulin than they've had under Morosov.

    I have always said that expectations for this team way outstripped any potential I saw in them. The Russian fed was convinced that if V&M and D&W could move up to Seniors and win the OGM and the OSM four years later, I&K could do it too. But I&K had only been skating together for 18 months when they won Jr. Worlds, and V&M and D&W had both been skating together for more than 10 years when they moved up to senior. Big difference in experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Blame Plushenko. He was supposed to go to Worlds, win at least a silver medal, and get Russia three spots for the Men. He was injured, so Russia gets one.

    I&K have been a hot mess since they moved up to seniors. They have gone backwards under Morosov and they were assigned to him precisely because they weren't doing well under Zhulin, who had little patience for their lack of work ethic. They had better results and better placements under Zhulin than they've had under Morosov.

    I have always said that expectations for this team way outstripped any potential I saw in them. The Russian fed was convinced that if V&M and D&W could move up to Seniors and win the OGM and the OSM four years later, I&K could do it too. But I&K had only been skating together for 18 months when they won Jr. Worlds, and V&M and D&W had both been skating together for more than 10 years when they moved up to senior. Big difference in experience.
    I still can't understand the shade almost perpetually shown at I/K. Given what I remember, I/K had their best GP season, EC and Worlds result(s) with Morozov and not Zhulin. Their worst result with Morozov was Worlds 2013. Zhulin may be a great creative genius but maybe they just couldn't bear up under his methods. Maybe at the time they were too thin skinned? But their work ethic appears to have improved. I think it is too early to write off the current coaching situation.

    If you remember at the beginning of the season Lena dislocated her shoulder, so I imagine that would have interfered with training of lifts. Also, if you look at Worlds training footage Lena had a small patch on her back. So they were not 100% here. Nikita also makes mention of it in an interview after the World Championships. ([URL="http://fsrussia.ru/news/516_nikita-kacalapov-nado-rabotat-dnem-i-nochyu-i-vse-poluchitsya--/"] So maybe we could cut them just a little slack. They need more time, they and S/S are going through growing pains. But I think in the years to come they will both be very hard to beat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bramweld View Post
    If you remember at the beginning of the season Lena dislocated her shoulder, so I imagine that would have interfered with training of lifts. Also, if you look at Worlds training footage Lena had a small patch on her back. So they were not 100% here. Nikita also makes mention of it in an interview after the World Championships. ([URL="http://fsrussia.ru/news/516_nikita-kacalapov-nado-rabotat-dnem-i-nochyu-i-vse-poluchitsya--/"] So maybe we could cut them just a little slack. They need more time, they and S/S are going through growing pains. But I think in the years to come they will both be very hard to beat.
    Please re-read my post. My criticism was of the expectations and handling of this team. Tarasova should have them, not that slime Morosov.

    I said that they were supposed to WIN the OGM next year. I don't see that happening. At this point, I don't see them winning a medal of any colour. Morosov has given them the worst material possible. A dance is supposed to highlight their strengths and minimize weaknesses. Morosov's material for them has done the opposite.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Top Russian girls are only 16. They are not ready to challenge skaters like Kim, Kostner and Mao who are much older and experienced. Normally after an Olympics the top veteran skaters and medalists retire and the new girls take over. Not this cycle. The gold and silver medalists from Vancouver are still skating and will be in Sochi and veterans like Kostner and Suzuki also didn't retire. Plus Tuk and Adelina didn't have enough time before the Olympics to really establish themselves. One Worlds appearance before the Olympics is just not enough time. Mao and Kim had almost 4 years to build there reputation before the 2010 Olympics.
    Out of curiosity, what do you think Tuktamysheva, Sotnikova and the Russian Federation think of their performances? Yes, they are only 16, but the bottom five girls in the top 10 were all first-timers at Worlds, and the Russians finished behind Gold, who was solid, but not exactly stellar; Li, who was stellar in the free skate but not the short program; and Osmond, who was stellar in the short program, but not the free skate. I have a hard time believing that finishing fourth and fifth out of that group is going to be considered a good thing, considering their performances the past couple years.

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    Many skaters going through puberty deal with problems such as growing taller and developing hips. But Tuktamysheva's problem is NOT growing taller and developing hips. She is growing out rather than up---even her face has become round and she has a hint of a double chin. And it is affecting her jumps and ice coverage. She would do well to add lots of off-ice training to her regimen.

    The one thing she should not do is wear those horrible black costumes with heavy black tights that not only do NOT make her appear slimmer, but make her look short, squat and almost matronly.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Many skaters going through puberty deal with problems such as growing taller and developing hips. But Tuktamysheva's problem is NOT growing taller and developing hips. She is growing out rather than up---even her face has become round and she has a hint of a double chin. And it is affecting her jumps and ice coverage. She would do well to add lots of off-ice training to her regimen.

    The one thing she should not do is wear those horrible black costumes with heavy black tights that not only do NOT make her appear slimmer, but make her look short, squat and almost matronly.
    This. Tuk problem is not height but it is weight
    the black costumes are indeed used to make her appear slimmer but its really terrible to look at

    Mishin has mentioned several times she is gaining weight
    It will do best Liza to eat only 1 meal a day or less intake or carbs, forumers mention she really loves ice cream
    imo, Mishin should monitor everything Liza eats and bar her eating any sweets that is causing her alarming weight gain

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    This. Tuk problem is not height but it is weight
    the black costumes are indeed used to make her appear slimmer but its really terrible to look at

    Mishin has mentioned several times she is gaining weight
    It will do best Liza to eat only 1 meal a day or less intake or carbs, forumers mention she really loves ice cream
    imo, Mishin should monitor everything Liza eats and bar her eating any sweets that is causing her alarming weight gain
    And people wonder why so many female athletes develop eating disorders.

    Sorry but I would rather forego the pleasure of watching ANY FS than see some poor woman starve herself (even unto death) for our entertainment.

  9. #24
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    For the women, they sent the best 3 they could; the group simply under delivered. I don't think any of their men would have finished high enough to secure two spots, although there arguably was a more deserving athlete. Pairs and dance teams did fine.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    This. Tuk problem is not height but it is weight
    the black costumes are indeed used to make her appear slimmer but its really terrible to look at

    Mishin has mentioned several times she is gaining weight
    It will do best Liza to eat only 1 meal a day or less intake or carbs, forumers mention she really loves ice cream
    imo, Mishin should monitor everything Liza eats and bar her eating any sweets that is causing her alarming weight gain
    I think I would like her a lot more if Mishin hands her a bar of ice cream at the Kiss and Cry. She needs to be relatable.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    And people wonder why so many female athletes develop eating disorders.

    Sorry but I would rather forego the pleasure of watching ANY FS than see some poor woman starve herself (even unto death) for our entertainment.
    So are the non-athletes. I deny myself ice cream ALL the time.

  12. #27
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    Guys who are calling Liza heavy, have any of you SEEN her in person? My guess is she looks very tiny in person. I've seen pictures of her on facebook and instagram and she looks tiny. Not waif-thin but petite, muscular, not fat or overweight in any way. Mostly what I notice is she has a rectangular build, in other words, her shoulders, waist, and hips are all about the same in width, and given that she is short and particularly through the torso, this combined with those ugly costumes are making her appear frumpy and though she might be out of shape when I severly doubt that is the case. She wouldn't be reeling off 3lz-3t as easy as she does if she were not in good shape and carrying a bunch of extra weight on her. It is normal during puberty for the waist to thicken and then later the weight redistributes itself and the shape is more mature and womanly. Liza isn't curvy and she's short, but her weight is fine and she's jumping well regardless of her changing build. Mostly I notice her legs are more muscular than last season, that seems to be where she mainly filled out, and that is normal and strong leg muscles will help her jump. Starving herself and eating once a day is NOT the answer. Plus, I would assume she's doing the best she can with her weight and trying to eat properly already.

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    I don't think it was wrong to send Liza and Adelina and it was right to send them. the problem may be the whole environment and that is why a better leader of the whole federation could be an improvement. The pushing of kovtun was a huge mistake because unlike Aaron and hanyu and gachinski and others in the pas two years did really awful. Where was any talent. Gold, osmond, zijun li, newcomers all did better. The sigles was not good.

    No one can say morosov has been bad for I/k because they have shown improvement and did well in gp and euros. Obviously if you think morosov has been bad for I/k results who would be good and how are they transferred?

    Gorshkov oversaw the transfer of I/k to morosov the sending of kovtun the training of sotnikova and tuktamisheva or maybe should have been aware of all the situations that produced bad results for singles and 2 dance teams and 1 pairs teams. There seems to be extreme chaos before Sochi and decline.

    Only good things were v/t wining and b/s bronze which a lot happened after gorshkov was elected.

    Maybe someone in russian skating needs to take some responsibility!

  14. #29
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    Some girls gain weight when they go through puberty. Liza is one of them. So was Slutskaya---she lost her jumps at one point because she'd gained weight. The answer is off-ice training, not starvation. Liza needs to develop healthy eating and exercise habits until her body stabilizes. The truth is, her skating is suffering right now. She isn't getting high PCS scores even when she lands all her jumps because she's slow and her ice coverage is subpar.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    This. Tuk problem is not height but it is weight
    the black costumes are indeed used to make her appear slimmer but its really terrible to look at

    Mishin has mentioned several times she is gaining weight
    It will do best Liza to eat only 1 meal a day or less intake or carbs, forumers mention she really loves ice cream
    imo, Mishin should monitor everything Liza eats and bar her eating any sweets that is causing her alarming weight gain
    Has it ever occurred to some of you people that GAINING WEIGHT IS ALSO A NATURAL PUBERTY SIDE-EFFECT FOR GIRLS.

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