Should Gorshkov be fired? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Should Gorshkov be fired?

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
she is filling out but not getting any taller, Liza is petite
Julia is now taller than Liza

Plenty of pair girls are petite AND slim so just because Liza is short does not mean she necessarily will fill out to be "heavy". It might make things harder but to me she appears to have a small frame, so I really think her body is just adjusting now and once she reaches her more adult figure, the distribution of her weight will make it apparent that she is not heavy at all.

And comparing her to Julia doesn't say that much, Julia is not that short anyways, even last season, on the podium at junior worlds she was nearly as tall as Adelina. And now this season she has grown more, in pictures from JW you can see she is much taller than Radionova and nearly as tall as Pogo, who I actually think is a decent height, at JW warming up for the FS she looked like an amazon next to Miyahara and some of the other tiny ones. Julia is skinny and does not have particularly long limbs but she's probably 5'2" or more now, so when she finishes growing, likely will be average height.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
this is actually what Im thinking, she is naturally petite but filling out will be a problem when you are short
maybe her genes are just build stockier compared to say Julia and Adelinas. imo, julia has the most well proportioned body

It is mentioned in Russian forums she likes ice cream very much.
even her instagram is filled with eating ice cream

Coincidentally (or not), Julia is also the only one of the three who hasn't yet experienced significant puberty issues. She mentioned prior to Junior Worlds that she was starting to see some body changes similar to those of Liza and Adelina. It's unlikely that she'll keep the same hyper-slim, leggy physique past her mid-teens.

I don't find anything wrong with a 16-year-old girl liking ice cream. Certainly, as an elite figure skater, Liza is held to a strict diet and can only enjoy sweets/junk food in the off-season. Your repetitiveness of this unsurprising fact is getting old, IMO.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Julia doesn't have particularly long legs for her height, not compared to Radio and Pogo. And it is possible she could maintain that slim build after puberty, some women are just built like that. I mean, Mao and Yuna have not changed that much physically since they were 14 or 15. They are a few inches taller and have a more mature figure now, but, they are still very thin, leggy. Christina Gao is the same way, and again so many pairs girls are so tiny. Julia could change a lot but she also might not. Kororbeynikova and Shelepen are quite tall but remained very slender after their growthspurts. Idk. At this point thought it's unlikely Tuk will get much taller, though, so that along with other genetic factors could make staying at a target weight more of a challenge than for some others.

Also, regarding the ice cream. At the end of the day, weight is just calories in versus calories out. Athletes exercise a lot and have lots of muscle so they need to eat a lot. Eating ice cream does not mean someone is overeating, what is in your diet can effect things like muscle mass, body fat %, etc, but in terms of weight alone, it is completely possible to eat ice cream every day and not gain weight and maintain a low weight.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Liza is too narrow and thin, from what I saw at Euros, but as she goes through puberty her waist is getting more compact and her legs are filled out. Adelina is half year older than Liza and had her share of filling out last season if you remember too, but she has different body type with longer legs etc etc, and this year Adelina's jumps are better and her physique great and healthy. I think its not right to speculate that Liza eats unhealthy in the competition season or suggesting her an unhealthy diet, she has a whole team behind her.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I am sure it would be a great education in delivering Russian insults in the frostiest ways possible, particularly since Mishin was pulling for Menshov.

Whoever said that the selectors deserved a slap over the wrist for sending Kovtun; no, they deserve a punch in the face.

Agreed. The worst decision ever. Kovtun should have gone to Junior Worlds and Menshov Senior Worlds. I highly doubt Menshov would have placed 17th. Maybe not top 10, but certainly a better showing than that.

Dragonlady, there's no way Plushenko would have gotten silver, considering his form at Euros. But he's a good competitor so who knows.

Leonova surprisingly did better than I thought, and she still fought in her programs, in spite of the many errors.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Yes menshov had amazingly consistent 4/3 and 3a the whole season! Amazingly consistent!
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Blame Plushenko. He was supposed to go to Worlds, win at least a silver medal, and get Russia three spots for the Men. He was injured, so Russia gets one.

I&K have been a hot mess since they moved up to seniors. They have gone backwards under Morosov and they were assigned to him precisely because they weren't doing well under Zhulin, who had little patience for their lack of work ethic. They had better results and better placements under Zhulin than they've had under Morosov.
I have always said that expectations for this team way outstripped any potential I saw in them. The Russian fed was convinced that if V&M and D&W could move up to Seniors and win the OGM and the OSM four years later, I&K could do it too. But I&K had only been skating together for 18 months when they won Jr. Worlds, and V&M and D&W had both been skating together for more than 10 years when they moved up to senior. Big difference in experience.

:eek:

OMG and you holded the candle!
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Many skaters going through puberty deal with problems such as growing taller and developing hips. But Tuktamysheva's problem is NOT growing taller and developing hips. She is growing out rather than up---even her face has become round and she has a hint of a double chin. And it is affecting her jumps and ice coverage. She would do well to add lots of off-ice training to her regimen.

The one thing she should not do is wear those horrible black costumes with heavy black tights that not only do NOT make her appear slimmer, but make her look short, squat and almost matronly.

At worlds she missed only 2A in SP and her base value in LP the same as Kim, she needs to get psc she deserves, ans be judge properly on her jumps:p
Elizaveta pretty young lady and doen't need to loose any weight, her teens puffness on a face will go away soon. It is normal. She has difficult programs, charisma and phenomenal P/I skills, her ice coverege is relevant to her hight and huge on her jumps.
 

bramweld

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Call me stupid, but I'll never get the rage about I&K. They have potential yes that is clear to see but, they have so much to learn. It is clear to me that Elena is the more technically consistent of the two, while Nikita has the the more artistic flair in their competition programs. Nikita also is not very strong yet. I just get that sense when I watch him, besides his build is so slight. The disservice that was done to them in the first case was the massive over hyping of them both by the FED and Zhulin. With egg potentially on Zhulin's face, he had to protect his reputation by throwing them under the bus before they put even one skate on the ice at their very first worlds. He really, really is a very charming fellow. Zhulin didn't even put together Don Quixote properly until October/November of their first season. The Shibs were set from April of that same year.

IMHO, this failure at worlds could be a blessing for them. They need to step back and grow, without any undue pressure or expectations. What the Fed doesn't appear to have is poise and patience. Otherwise they'd try to encourage them not kick them when they're down, vis a vis, Stavisky, Averbuck and Zhulin but it is just the Russian way I guess. I doubt that is how North Americans treat their couples? Do we understand that it has taken P/B, B/S, V/M, D/W etc at least 10 -12 yrs to get to this point added to which I/K appear to be the typical teenager and young adult to me, clueless.

The Russian FED is just too hungry for dominance, thus putting too much pressure on both athletes and coaches and that's why they're all in this mess. This push started too late. The overall Russian performance at this championships was sad, with the only light being V/T. Only God alone knows how they'll save face at their very own Olympics. It's in times like these I'm tempted to believe in Karma....
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Plus zhulin was with I/k as juniors if they disturbed him so much why did he spend so much time with them and not drop them before they turned senior? So there's lots of nonsense going around and I think I/k are going to retire before next season starts because of the tremendous lack of support. Why should they bother? They must really like doing what they so if they don't but it's doubtful the support is there to make the Sochi olympIc team.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Yes menshov had amazingly consistent 4/3 and 3a the whole season! Amazingly consistent!

His quad has always been consistent. The issue more is always popping/doubling out on lutzes, and when you do that, suddenly the advantage of doing a 4/3 vs. a 3/3 disappears :slink:
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Menshov is also a sloppy skater. His frequent stepouts take away from the performance. But he does land most of his jumps, even under pressure, which is not the case for Kovtun.

The Russian federation attitude towards Menshov reminds me of how they treated Maria Butyrskaya. They pretty much ignored her in the early 1990's and were never really behind her, even when she started winning World medals. They always backed Slutskaya, even after Maria won the World Championship.

That attitude is also similar to how the Japanese federation treats Suzuki as a third-class skater, even though she's won a World medal and has collected quite a few GP medals in her career.
 
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