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Thread: Is It Time To Deemphasize the Quad?

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    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    Is It Time To Deemphasize the Quad?

    A recent topic here about the judging system got me thinking about the importance of the Quad jump in the men's discipline. I watched as talented skater after talented skater was subdued by the elusive quad. So many great male skaters are sacrificing other elelments of their programs to land a quad. In fact, I believe the quad even caused Patrick Chan to deliver a flawed long program because he was so focused on landing the quad at the beginning of his program. Even Keven Reynolds, Canada's new "Quad King" struggled in his long program with some of his jumps other than the quad. It always strikes me odd that so many male skaters can pull off two or three quads and yet can't get the triple axel under their belts consistently. Brian Orser could do a triple axel in his sleep. Perhaps it is time the Quad jump becomes less important and quality skating becomes more important. I would rather watch a really talented skater do triple and double jumps and deliver a near flawless if not flawless performance over an extra rotation. Just thnking!!


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    - * - blue_idealist's Avatar
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    Umm.. no.. the quad was just re-emphasized after Evan Lysacek won the OGM without a quad. They made it count for MORE in the scoring after that, so they would not go back to making it less, at least not right away.

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    No. Never.

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    No.

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    But then men's figure skating would just be ladies' figure skating, except with boring spins.

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    You can't deemphasize the quad. You eliminate it from most men's programs. Most will not even do them if the penalty is too harsh or values of other things are raised.

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    Custom Title Rachmaninoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    Umm.. no.. the quad was just re-emphasized after Evan Lysacek won the OGM without a quad. They made it count for MORE in the scoring after that, so they would not go back to making it less, at least not right away.
    Yeah, just what I was thinking. It was valued less initially, and people weren't happy with that either and were complaining the men's technical content was regressing. Can't win, I guess.

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    No, the quad doesn't need to be de-emphasised, the blokes need to get off their butts and start landing it.

    Plushenko was landing them at 14 years old. And he's still landing them. Evidently there's something wrong with the Western style of teaching jump technique or something.

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    Custom Title spikydurian's Avatar
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    Yes, so that skaters who are deemed very artistic but cannot do quads and still win.

  10. #10
    Custom Title merrywidow's Avatar
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    Judging in skating goes in cycles, a few years when the jumps are deemed more important & when the level is raised with the top 10 or 12 men it will swing back to artistry & style. By the time 2018 rolls around it should swing back to artistry & will be great for someone like Jason Brown!

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    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Yes, so that skaters who are deemed very artistic but cannot do quads and still win.
    They go to the shows! This is a competitive sport! That will be the death of male FS! no risk, no competition, very nice slipping :(

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladskater View Post
    Perhaps it is time the Quad jump becomes less important and quality skating becomes more important. I would rather watch a really talented skater do triple and double jumps and deliver a near flawless if not flawless performance over an extra rotation. Just thnking!!
    If this was the case, Chan would have won with an even greater margin of victory over the pack, because his skating is viewed as having some of the best quality. This would also ensure that Daisuke could make the podium in spite of 8th place TES in the SP and 13th place TES in the FS (although getting the PCS to keep him at 6th overall was generous enough).

    There are a lot of skaters who will never have the artistic capabilities as Chan and Takahashi, and rely on good technical content to have a shot at winning. It's a sport after all. It's not the quad that is causing a lack of quality skating... notice that Chan and Ten and Fernandez made errors on simpler jumping passes.

    Christ, the women for the longest time were watering down their technical content and winning with 4 triples, the hardest being a loop or a flip. The same will happen in the men's if they feel like they can pull a Lysacek/Buttle and win without bringing the big guns.

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    No. Men's skating is the only discipline that has progressed under COP. (Well, maybe dance, too) Plushy was right--men's skating without the quad is ladies' skating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    No. Men's skating is the only discipline that has progressed under COP. (Well, maybe dance, too) Plushy was right--men's skating without the quad is ladies' skating.
    Definitely ice dancing has progressed too.

    I am of two minds about quads. The skate fan in me loves that the sport is still progressing. The worrywart in me is in distress about what it does to skaters' bodies. But I don't think I get a say. Skating will move along whether or not I'm sitting there worrywarting about Plushenko's back and Daisuke's knees. Maybe what we need is better skate technology. (Oh, goodness...would that lead to quints?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Definitely ice dancing has progressed too.

    I am of two minds about quads. The skate fan in me loves that the sport is still progressing. The worrywart in me is in distress about what it does to skaters' bodies. But I don't think I get a say. Skating will move along whether or not I'm sitting there worrywarting about Plushenko's back and Daisuke's knees. Maybe what we need is better skate technology. (Oh, goodness...would that lead to quints?)
    I definitely share that concern, but the truth is, ambitious athletes will always push their bodies to the limit, no matter what. If quads weren't allowed, then the men would practice triple-triple-triples over and over. As I recall, Tara Lipinski messed up her hip practicing too many of that 3Lo-3Lo combo that won her the OGM. They can always find something to over-train!

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