Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 52

Thread: Is It Time To Deemphasize the Quad?

  1. #16
    Custom Title ks777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,059
    NO!! But we should get rid of GOE. The judges are giving out GOE(+3) to their favorites like candies. That's what's wrong with the system.

  2. #17
    Custard Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    982
    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    NO!! But we should get rid of GOE. The judges are giving out GOE(+3) to their favorites like candies. That's what's wrong with the system.
    Yes, positive GOE should be a 1/2 not a 1/2/3 scale. Good jumps get a +1, great jumps get a +2. That makes it much harder to prop up somebody like Chan. Negative GOE should probably stay the same, though.

  3. #18
    Custom Title spikydurian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    978
    Since the majority are complaining about winning with falls, easy-peasy ...... just raise jump points by 25% and falls to 0 so all who landed quads will be duly rewarded and those who fall will be duly punished.

    Go Kevin go, go Max go, go Plushenko (alias bionic man) go, go Joubert go ...

  4. #19
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,052
    emphasize of not,i just know that it messes up whole program when can't land by either falling or not being able to land so-called easy jumps like triokes. It messes up the timing of next jump by landing quad, triple. It totally messes up whole program when falls on quad including "artistry".

  5. #20
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2,314
    It's amazing to think that back in Salt Lake City, you had to have at least three quads to be competitive (one in the short, two in the long). And two falls would have killed you. Somehow they were able to punish falls, and yet the guys were still going for the big jumps.

  6. #21
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    256
    Quote Originally Posted by CarneAsada View Post
    Yes, positive GOE should be a 1/2 not a 1/2/3 scale. Good jumps get a +1, great jumps get a +2.
    So, Goe's factor was reduced to 70%.

  7. #22
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    2,037
    No...and I wasn't a big quad advocate but I think it should be an important part of men's skating. It just should be coupled with very good artistry and not a bunch of falls. This is my problem with skating.

  8. #23
    Custard Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    982
    Quote Originally Posted by venlac View Post
    So, Goe's factor was reduced to 70%.
    I should have made myself clearer.

    Positive GOE for the standard triples should be either +1 or +2 instead of .7/1.4/2.1. The fact that judges award jumps anywhere from 1 to 3 (sometimes even -1 to 3) shows that judges can't handle the current system.

  9. #24
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    984
    I think the quad should be de-emphasized. I think it messes up programs, I think it's not physically safe for a skater to continually practice it, and it makes the program all about the jumps instead of being better balanced. Young men work so hard on that jump and others that the rest of their skating falls by the wayside. Max Aaron is a perfect example. He's well-developed in one aspect and sorely lacking in the others. Nothing against Max - he's doing what he thinks is desired. I just like to see a whole program and not amazing jumps.

  10. #25
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    I think the quad should be de-emphasized. I think it messes up programs, I think it's not physically safe for a skater to continually practice it, and it makes the program all about the jumps instead of being better balanced. Young men work so hard on that jump and others that the rest of their skating falls by the wayside. Max Aaron is a perfect example. He's well-developed in one aspect and sorely lacking in the others. Nothing against Max - he's doing what he thinks is desired. I just like to see a whole program and not amazing jumps.
    Max has said that he loves to jump. I think he would keep on jumping quads even if their value would diminish. Some guys just like to practice the jumps but the steps, edges etc. aren't that thrilling for them.

  11. #26
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    2,615
    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    It's amazing to think that back in Salt Lake City, you had to have at least three quads to be competitive (one in the short, two in the long). And two falls would have killed you. Somehow they were able to punish falls, and yet the guys were still going for the big jumps.
    Difficult transitions, intricate footwork, complex spins....and surely I'm fogetting something, might have soemthing to do with this. I find myself truly cofused - I look back at older programs and often feel they are exciting in jumps but empty in skating (the steps, transitions etc); but I look at what we know these guys can do now based on 'lesser' comps and practices, and then what they do in the big comp (trip, fall, water it down) and wonder how we can reward complexity and difficulty fairly without creating a system that encourages and to some extent rewards messy spatfests (which I'm sure are also dangerous to the skaters, or at least could be).

  12. #27
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,521
    I'm with those who think mistakes should be penalized more, but I do like that quads are incentivized under the system. It makes it more interesting because it gives skaters different paths to victory. A great jumper who does other things well still can win championships as we saw at US Nationals, and really Patrick opened the door at Worlds but no one skated clean enough to walk through. (Arguably Dennis did but he did not benefit from reputation scoring like he might have had he been a more consistent skater.)

  13. #28
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    272
    Quads should not be deemphasized, but there should be greater penalties imposed on skaters who only do beautiful quads and then basically skate like garbage for the rest of their routine. Penalize the regular stuff gone awry more perhaps. There seems to be an imbalance in the scoring for some skaters in particular and the optics are horrible. It sometimes makes the sport look like "fake wrestling" in the way that the winner is determined. If skating wants to be taken seriously outside of the sport, it needs a revamped system to get a better and fairer result. What happened at worlds may be defensible to some, but it needs to be much farther above reproach than it is. If the sport wants respect, the scoring has to change.

  14. #29
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    401
    For me, it's simple: I want falls to have a -3 deduction instead of a -1. Yes, that means if you fall on an easier element, you might get net negative points. I don't care... just don't fall.

  15. #30
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    409
    I don't think there's anything wrong with Western jump teaching (like I would know, LOL!). I think we have a mediocre crop of men the last few years. Plushenko and Yagudin were exceptional. They did quads AND entertained us with their showmanship AND skated clean (or at least without falling).

    Today's unstoppable most excellent champion is lucky if he can do two of the three in a long program. It's hard to know what to emphasize when nobody is truly that great.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •