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Thread: Conclusions for the 2013 World Championships

  1. #16
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    One of the things that frustrates some and causes others to smile in this "sport" is the array of opinions. I thought Virtue and Moir were spot on last night and looked better than early in the season. I only saw the program live and once, so I understand that other sets of eyes may have seen things differently or may have viewed the program more than once. In contrast, I watched Davis and White on YouTube (my stream died before they skated live) and criticize them for something I've noticed in some prior performances: they didn't interpret the music well. There's no question that their speed is tremendous, but they skated as if the music was essentially one big blast and I don't think they ever thought to insert subtlety into the program to bring some contrast in. I think there's no shame in putting D/W technically high up there and then hitting them when they don't interpret music in a way that makes sense. Anyway, at least both teams were "better" in their discipline than Chan and Ten!

    Time to try to watch the ladies' LP on video.

  2. #17
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    One thing I was really surprised with - the quality of the top 24 in the ladies and men's disciplines! Maybe it's the TES mins, but I was pleasantly surprised to see such good skates from the 1st and 2nd groups, and by skaters who really belonged there too and didn't wind up in one of those warmups due to SP meltdowns. It was really great to see.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Oh please the history of figure skating is filled with dozens of complete men skaters who had all those things and didnt fall on their touches 5 times and still get handed wins on a silver platter each event too. He didnt force anything, except thousands of more skating fans to turn off their TV sets, many of them for good, and possibly revived rules to come soon for all the things he is the Poster Boy that is wrong with the current scoring system.
    then if that is the case let us be consistent, add Germany, Kostner and the list goes on. Wrong - well then change the scoring system or parameters but then what there will be a new problem because it is in the eye of the beholder. every change brings a new headache not to mention whining on these boards by someone who likes it or not. Remember when those nasty spirals became long tedious ugly positions. Or the spins that required everyone to do some form of a Biellman. The race for the quad....

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    One thing I was really surprised with - the quality of the top 24 in the ladies and men's disciplines! Maybe it's the TES mins, but I was pleasantly surprised to see such good skates from the 1st and 2nd groups, and by skaters who really belonged there too and didn't wind up in one of those warmups due to SP meltdowns. It was really great to see.
    One thing I was not really surprised with is the bickering on this board with the marking system But that being said yes, the quality was good of the ladies.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    of course because only S/S should matter and Chan would always win with multiple falls
    Osmond had an inflated score even with 2 falls.

    that's not going to happen though
    I notice an Osmond trend she is only mostly good when in Canadian soil, probably she knows she will have inflated scores
    she usually bombs when outside Canada and not a good FS like 4CC

    overall the clear favorites V/T, Yuna, D/W and Chanflated Fraud
    V/M can complain all they want but they are lagging now tech
    But not 130+.

    Osmond seems to have some of the same issues as the other teenagers (Gold, Tukt, Sotnikova, Li to an extent)--she gets spooked. You could tell that she hadn't expected to find herself alongside Kostner, Asada, and Kim in the final group, and that probably affected her concentration. But she's an excellent performer already, with almost the whole arsenal of triple jumps, and this should be an issue that goes away as she gains more experience.

  6. #21
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    Hi everyone. Long-time lurker. Occasional poster. I'm going to try to post more in the exciting run up to Sochi. My take-aways:

    All the Gracie nay-sayers are silenced. She came in 5th in the free and fought through her nerves. She did not pop or fall. Even her PCS were decent. With more clean programs, she could post some huge scores next year. I would not be surprise if she goes into Sochi as National Champ. Ashley did her job too but she will need to up her technical ante to hang with a more confident Gracie and challenge for the podium in Sochi.

    Kim is back. I fully expect her to win the Olympics.

    The clean program means very little these days. See Chan, S/S, even Kostner, especially in her short.

    Osmond and Li were both joys to watch. Carolina is the most exquisite and musical skater but silver with 2 falls seems wrong when I grew up watching 6.0 where she would have had to battle for bronze after falling in the short. Mao looked like she was going through the motions- love her though, hope she can be more up there with Yuna next year. Feel bad Kanako was 4th with 2 solid programs. Heartbroken for Suzuki. Sad the Russians only managed 2 spots with their talented field for their home Olympics

    The ice dance rivalry is one of the ages. Carmen looked the best it had but I think D/W were the rightful winner of the FD and the competition. Huge congrats to them for doing it when so many seemed to write them off on VM/M's home turf. I think with this competition they established themselves as the better team at the moment and the Sochi favorites. I cannot believe these teams continue to train together but somehow it seems to work. Will be very curious to see what V/M do program wise next year. I also wonder if Marina can come up with 2 more perfect vehicles to showcase D/W's speed and technical prowess than she did this year.

    W/P came back strong to let the world know they intend to fight b/S for that bronze. However, judges seem firmly in B/S camp although the Italians made a nice case for themselves. The Shibs decline continues- C&B are now solidly the US number 2 with Igor behind them.

    V/T and S/S will go 1-2 at the Olympics. V/T were beautiful and I cannot imagine them not being the champions at home. S/S were propped both programs by the judges who will not let them fall below silver. Gutsy on the 3A though. The Canadians should battle for bronze.


    Men- I really just can't get into Chan. Hats off to Max for a solid debut and Denis Ten who surprised the world.

  7. #22
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    Conclusion: chanflation makes the men's competition look the most revolting sports event in recent history. Not only the judges are pathetic, but the skater as well.

    http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/...served-to-win/

    “If I go back and study it, I think that the amount of time I’ve fallen, and combine both the short and long programs, and count the number of mistakes I made, I don’t think I made more than Denis did or Javier (Fernandez, bronze medalist) did or anyone,” he said.

    Seriously??????????

  8. #23
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    If Chan is also overmarked at Sochi, the judges will have only themselves to blame when the sport continues to plummet in fans, TV coverage and popularity here in the US.

    The best book I've read about all the collusion and dealmaking in figure skating judging at the national and olympic level was written by Jon Jackson, a former USFSA international-level judge. It's called: On Edge: Backroom Dealing, Cocktail Scheming, Triple Axels, and How Top Skaters Get Screwed.

  9. #24
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    I think the reason why the sport has died down in the US is mainly because they currently don't have a dominating skater like Michelle Kwan. Yes, D/W are great ice dancers, but ice dancing was never that popular among the US fans. I also find it a lot harder to watch as a casual viewer because of the way the judging works. The average person won't be able to tell which edge their on and such.

    Figure skating has become much more popular in Asia and I think that's a good thing. Even if it's not as big as it once was in the US, I wouldn't say it's a dead sport. What the US really needs is to find a great skater that is able to top the podium. I don't think the ISU cares that figure skating is not that relevant in the US anymore because you know what? Figure skating has gotten more popular in other countries. I believe that the US will slowly find their way back into figure skating soon though.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by joyfuls View Post
    I think the reason why the sport has died down in the US is mainly because they currently don't have a dominating skater like Michelle Kwan. .
    I've been hearing this conventional wisdom for too long. In my opinion, FS is no longer popular in NA is because people have moved on to some more interesting sporting events instead of a very subjective judging 'sport'. It will never come back as a mainstream sport even if American ladies win multiple world titles.

  11. #26
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    for me ,the 2 countries that should be smiling are the US and Canada.

    Canada:
    excellent pairs performances and results - with 3 teams next season it will be super intetresting to see who Tran selects as his partner and how quickly they might become competitive. I love Swigers and partner but they just dont see to " cut it" with international panels
    Good result for Osmond - hope Skate Canada doesnt rush her though - she is clearly not as mature as some others of her age and needs to add considerable polish and conditioning - I hope she will get programs that are less over-choreographed and of course she should ( and I am sure will ) add a triple/triple to her long program- All that said she, IMHO, has great potential but perhaps not to medal in Sochi but rather at the 2018 games ?

    Men - PC can win OGM IF he gets his act in gear soon - he needs to make his mind up about wher he is going to train and he must get a jump coach at the verey least. I didnt think Boheme was all that wonderful and I wonder if Wilson is the right choreographer for Patrick - maybe both programs by Buttle might be better or even get Shae-Lynne involved ?
    I thought Kevins result was wonderful given the " popped " cyst on his knee that apparently forced a reduced training schedule leading up to London.

    I do beleive that V/M can very much rebound from this 2nd place. More than in any other division it seems to me that program and music choice are paramount in Ice Dancing. Clearly the ISU wants light " frothy" programs and Carmen certainly didnt fit that bill ( although I just loved it personally !!).I know I will get clobbered for this but I think a return to Shilband might be in order if only to give them a much needed change of scenery.

    US -

    great work by Max Aaron but I dont think he has enough of the look the international judges seem to favor to medal in Sochi . I still thin the USFSA made a huge mistake in not sending Joshua Farris to worlds purely for the expsure and experience as he cold very well make the US team for Sochi. I think Jason Brown is a bigger talent in the long run but is at least a year behind Joshua in his development and I hope will be given the chance to develp slowyl and surely for 2018. Ultimately I think the sky is the limit for Jason but not for 2014

    Great going by A

  12. #27
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    I was just thinking through what Mao's jump content might be next season, and if she goes for the same jump content as this season, it will be:

    3axel
    3flip-3loop
    3loop (which can be turned into 3loop-3loop)
    3lutz
    3salchow
    2axel-3toeloop
    3flip-2loop-2loop

    This is an eight triple program, which anyone with any knowledge of figure skating knows is an incredible feat. But if Mao gets negative GOEs on maybe half of these jump passes, she would still lose to a totally clean program that has loads of double jumps and easier triples.

    What do you think of this?

  13. #28
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    I guess this means that Voir will have to give up their coveted parking space to Marlie.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottadance View Post
    ... it will be super intetresting to see who Tran selects as his partner and how quickly they might become competitive.
    Natasha Purich

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetskates1 View Post
    Virtue and her partner wish they had the speed of their rivals. They have always been relatively "slow" when compared to the 2013 world champions. It is just that, (unfairly!) Virtue and her partner have relied on their mushy 'romantic' (whatever... ) connection to win up until now. I agree that Ice Dance should look airy and effortless, this is why last year's Die Fledermaus was an instant classic! Honestly, the real question is not whether Virtue and her partner are done, but rather if the judges will continue to acknowledge the greatness of their superior rivals... not holding my breath or making bets...
    Oh come now. V/M are definitely slower than D/W but they are faster than anyone else out there by some measure, at least 95% of the time. Yesterday they did look off to me but that is one time. While I do think D/W have overtaken them generally (don't hate me, Voir lovers! I am one of you!) there is more to SS and to performance than just speed (which, as I have already stated, V/M do in fact have). There are edges (and ice dance is all edges) and lines and interpretation and flow. Marlie have caught up on all of this except for maybe lines (Meryl has to work on hers some still, but zomg it is like she is a different skater than she used to be with how much better she already is) but V/M for really all of their career have had edging and lines and interpretation that other teams would kill for- and they had them naturally, to boot.

    While now, after many many years, I am a bigger Marlie fan than Voir fan, Voir is actually the only ice dance team to this point in my life that I fell in love with on first viewing all the way back at JW in 2004. They have something very, very special and have almost always, in fact, looked airy and effortless out there, yesterday notwithstanding.

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