What about Kiira and Laura though? Or even Czisny that one season she did very well internationally? They weren't the strongest jumpers and didn't do well because of consistently hitting hard combos and reeling off triple after triple. I know Czisny has her spins and Kiira and Laura sometimes have 3t-3t, but, idk, I do think some skaters are rewarded for their maturity and artistry and will do well provided they skate well. Now are these three skaters really considered the best of the best? No, perhaps the bottom of the top tier, if that makes sense, but Laura did win bronze at Worlds (even if how she got to it was somewhat a joke) and had a 4th place FS at the Olympics, and all 3 have a number of international medals.
Originally Posted by guanchi
Why compare Ashley to someone like Carolina?
Even 10 years ago, Carolina was skating like a future champion. She was the fastest and she had a few different triple triples. Immediately threatened for medal at the top level.
Ashley has been around and can't even make a name for herself and suddenly people think she gonna blossom into a top tier skater? Where is the foundation?
Same with shizuka. That girl has skills no one had. You know if she skate clean, she would be unstoppable.
A clean Ashley would come in about 6th or 7th. That is not future champion material.
Why should she retire? Ashley is still the no. 1 US lady. Yes, Gracie beat her in the LP at both Nationals and Worlds. But at Worlds, Gracie beat her just barely in the FS, and Ashley had a disruptive fall to boot. The judges still prefer Ashley to Gracie - yes, Ashley needs to step it up technically, but she's still a reliable competitor whom you can count on to deliver 6 triples in a performance. Not many of the top skaters are able to do that - Carolina did 5, Mao did 5, etc. Now, when I compare Ashley at Worlds to how she skated earlier in the season - at Worlds, she looked scared and slower than she was on the GP circuit. I think the falls at Nationals and the GPF, and then the pressure of getting 3 spots, made her skate more cautiously. If Ashley can get back the confidence and attack that she had throughout 2012, she'll be in fighting shape next year - and dare I say it, challenge for the podium at Olympics and Worlds.
As bolded, I think that is def. where they are, tho Laura had some nice qualities like blazing speed, a huge 3t-3t, and nice lutz too. But time and injuries must've been catching up to her, too bad about her retirement. Seems like those doubled jumps at 2010 were about playing it safe and using her nice basic skating to podium. And it's kinda weird- both Finnish skaters have a remarkably similar look on the ice- a stiff carriage, the way they stroke, the way they ball their fists into the jumps, air position, def. a distinctive look both share, imo.
Originally Posted by silverlake22
I think Laura always hovered near the top, and often knocked on the top floor (Euro champ, 3rd at worlds), that she was always an athletic skater with interesting programs, but not thought of as innately artistic. Her speed and jumps were 1st rate- but maybe time caught up with her b4 she could fully develop her artistry.
It's my opinion too though I actually really like Ashley (though I don't love her and probably will never be what I'd consider a true 'fan' of hers).
Originally Posted by MKFSfan
It is up to Ashley if she wants to retire. With her sponsorships and prize moneys from the past two years she is one of the lucky few in the USA who can surely afford to keep going if she wants to, even with no help from parents, so if she wants to more power to her. If she doesn't, more power to her too! I personally hope she will keep going but it's not up to me in the slightest.
In this day and age, retiring at 21 or 22 if pretty much not heard of unless you're injury-plagued. Ashley has developed into a fine skater over the past 2 years. My only complaint with her is that she sometimes skates on auto-pilot. Almost robotic. But I think with really good choreography and the triple/triple combo....I wouldn't count her out. I think Gracie is going to be a force to be reckoned with at Nats next year. I don't think Agnes will be or Gao for that matter. It's going to be interesting with all things being equal who will take the US's third spot for the Olys.
In her defense, Ashley didn't exactly go into Nationals 100%. Salmonella can wipe you out for weeks. The hip pointer at 4CCs probably didn't get a good chance to properly heal. And yet Ashley didn't use either as an excuse. I do hope she stays in and doesn't retire.
So much can happen between now and then; but just speculating based on this year, I think Ashley has a lot left she wished to do. She has said how much she wants the Olympic experience, so I don't know if that is all she really wants, or if there are other titles and experiences she wants too. And I agree with silverlake22 that it will be interesting to see what happens with Nicks.
All that said, I think Ashley had a plan this year and it didn't quite work out; she said in some interview (sorry, I forget where) that she wanted to build on her confidence from last year and put out strong, clean programs in the fall. That is,in Fall that her goal was glean GPs and Nationals (get the most GOEs and levels, and perhaps PCs) out of her programs as possible; and put out strong SPs and LPs to build confindence; then do the 3x3 and/or 2axel3toe at 4CCs then worlds. Unfortunately, her GP final +illness happered this. It will be interesting to see if she comes out next fall with the 'upped' difficult from the get go or if she follows a path of do what I can consistently do well. The latter keeps her among the best, but risks the podium in the big events. The former could very well put her on big podiums, it also might risk injuries...hard to know what works best (and what someone's 'true' goals are especially in shfiting circumstances).
Confession: i didn't watch the ladies LP - just couldn't after the men's (will at some point though), but that aside, I've enjoyed her skating and look forward to what comes next.
Wow Flatfan! Why are you so hateful? Frankly I think Ashley has come a long way especialy artisticaly. But I think Gold is the furture for the US.
Originally Posted by FlattFan
She tried it at Worlds, but it was UR and two-footed, she's not even close to it, she has to work a lot if she wants to land a decent 2A+3T... Last season's 3-3 attempts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_u2lg30_UM and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTi2Oe13u6c) were pretty good, I thought that she was going to hit it this season but she proved my wrong, I just hope next season she improves somehow, she talked so much about the 3-3 this season but never landed it...
Originally Posted by Jammers
I think she sacrificed harder jump combos for consistency for the whole first half of the season and then couldn't get them back in time. The injury probably didn't help with that. If I were advising her and she gave a crap what I have to say I'd tell her she has to start training those combos now for next season and doing them in the GP too if she wants to push beyond where she is now. As she is only a good jumper to begin with (I'd say she is better than just average n ow that she's gotten rid of the 2-foots more or less) I think if she waits any longer chances are she will never be able to get them back for a major competition.
Originally Posted by FSGMT
Of course, she doesn't give a crap what I have to say, and even if she doesn't add them I think she can hang out between 4th and 6th if she lands everything. Judges really like her now and she's come a long way artistically.
Her lack of 3x3 or 2Ax3 is why I'm worried about her. I don't quite see her in the same situation as Leonova or Nagasu, both of whom were sort of dumped this season, but if you can't produce the results, I do think it's very difficult to keep going, especially in a big skating country. I do think she can improve even more and work on her components. SHE NEEDS A NEW CHOREOGRAPHER. But, I do hope she stay to after the Olympics and see what happens. Look at what Caro has been able to achieve after everyone thought she'd retire after 2010 Olympics. I wish her the best nonetheless though.
I think Ashley has plateaued. She had that injury and an illness that affected her around Nationals, but early in the season when she was skating well she didn't attempt more difficulty like a 3-3. I don't think she will ever be able to do a combo with a 3T well because she just doesn't have much speed coming out of her jumps like Yuna or Carolina. As a fan I'm disappointed because I thought this year she would build upon her successful 2011-12 season, but she seems content to skate clean programs with less difficulty than other top skaters. However, adding her career high ISU scores for the SP and the LP would have only put her in 4th anyway so maybe she is achieving the best she can with her talent.
Six Point Zero
If she wants a shot at a World medal Ashley should definitely stick around after Sochi. If you look back in the last two quads, the most dominant ladies were the best jumpers. I don't see this changing any time soon, so she needs to grab her chance right after Sochi and before the young skaters close in and overtake her. I just don't see her getting consistent with 3/3's and 2A+3T's.
You are right. I really love Gracie and cannot wait for the day when she becomes the No.1 lady of the U.S. It is really just a matter of time.
Originally Posted by pangtongfan
And if Wagner is beaten more than once by Gracie, no matter what happens in the rest of the world, I don't see the point she does not retire. In fact, it is a shame that she does not have 3-3 and 2A-3 in her package, and she remains to be the US champion.
I said exactly what she did. How is that hateful? She ain't gonna get a consistent 3x3 if she doesn't do them all the time.
Originally Posted by Bentley
Even Carolina Kostner, a far superior skater, had to test out her lutz/3x3 again and again in regional competitions to get ready for world. This girl thinks she can just pull them out at World? Really? Tim Goebel agrees it's close to impossible.
Don't be too sensitive.