Should/will Ashley Wagner Retire after the Olympics? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Should/will Ashley Wagner Retire after the Olympics?

noskates

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
In this day and age, retiring at 21 or 22 if pretty much not heard of unless you're injury-plagued. Ashley has developed into a fine skater over the past 2 years. My only complaint with her is that she sometimes skates on auto-pilot. Almost robotic. But I think with really good choreography and the triple/triple combo....I wouldn't count her out. I think Gracie is going to be a force to be reckoned with at Nats next year. I don't think Agnes will be or Gao for that matter. It's going to be interesting with all things being equal who will take the US's third spot for the Olys.

In her defense, Ashley didn't exactly go into Nationals 100%. Salmonella can wipe you out for weeks. The hip pointer at 4CCs probably didn't get a good chance to properly heal. And yet Ashley didn't use either as an excuse. I do hope she stays in and doesn't retire.
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
So much can happen between now and then; but just speculating based on this year, I think Ashley has a lot left she wished to do. She has said how much she wants the Olympic experience, so I don't know if that is all she really wants, or if there are other titles and experiences she wants too. And I agree with silverlake22 that it will be interesting to see what happens with Nicks.

All that said, I think Ashley had a plan this year and it didn't quite work out; she said in some interview (sorry, I forget where) that she wanted to build on her confidence from last year and put out strong, clean programs in the fall. That is,in Fall that her goal was glean GPs and Nationals (get the most GOEs and levels, and perhaps PCs) out of her programs as possible; and put out strong SPs and LPs to build confindence; then do the 3x3 and/or 2axel3toe at 4CCs then worlds. Unfortunately, her GP final +illness happered this. It will be interesting to see if she comes out next fall with the 'upped' difficult from the get go or if she follows a path of do what I can consistently do well. The latter keeps her among the best, but risks the podium in the big events. The former could very well put her on big podiums, it also might risk injuries...hard to know what works best (and what someone's 'true' goals are especially in shfiting circumstances).

Confession: i didn't watch the ladies LP - just couldn't after the men's (will at some point though), but that aside, I've enjoyed her skating and look forward to what comes next.
 

Bentley

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
She's been talking about that 3x3 for how long? Let's get real. She is a second tier skater. Never going to challenge anyone. Can't believe people thought she would win world just 2 months ago.

The real problem is her TES is never good. She is not a jumping Phenom turned artist on ice like the podium finishers this year. She was just meh her entire competitive career.

Wow Flatfan! Why are you so hateful? Frankly I think Ashley has come a long way especialy artisticaly. But I think Gold is the furture for the US.
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Why didn't she do at least 2axel3toe jump this season? It was obvious at Worlds that you have to do a 3-3 now and Ashley not doing one really stood out.
She tried it at Worlds, but it was UR and two-footed, she's not even close to it, she has to work a lot if she wants to land a decent 2A+3T... Last season's 3-3 attempts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_u2lg30_UM and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTi2Oe13u6c) were pretty good, I thought that she was going to hit it this season but she proved my wrong, I just hope next season she improves somehow, she talked so much about the 3-3 this season but never landed it...
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
She tried it at Worlds, but it was UR and two-footed, she's not even close to it, she has to work a lot if she wants to land a decent 2A+3T... Last season's 3-3 attempts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_u2lg30_UM and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTi2Oe13u6c) were pretty good, I thought that she was going to hit it this season but she proved my wrong, I just hope next season she improves somehow, she talked so much about the 3-3 this season but never landed it...

I think she sacrificed harder jump combos for consistency for the whole first half of the season and then couldn't get them back in time. The injury probably didn't help with that. If I were advising her and she gave a crap what I have to say I'd tell her she has to start training those combos now for next season and doing them in the GP too if she wants to push beyond where she is now. As she is only a good jumper to begin with (I'd say she is better than just average n ow that she's gotten rid of the 2-foots more or less) I think if she waits any longer chances are she will never be able to get them back for a major competition.

Of course, she doesn't give a crap what I have to say, and even if she doesn't add them I think she can hang out between 4th and 6th if she lands everything. Judges really like her now and she's come a long way artistically.
 

rkuang

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Her lack of 3x3 or 2Ax3 is why I'm worried about her. I don't quite see her in the same situation as Leonova or Nagasu, both of whom were sort of dumped this season, but if you can't produce the results, I do think it's very difficult to keep going, especially in a big skating country. I do think she can improve even more and work on her components. SHE NEEDS A NEW CHOREOGRAPHER. But, I do hope she stay to after the Olympics and see what happens. Look at what Caro has been able to achieve after everyone thought she'd retire after 2010 Olympics. I wish her the best nonetheless though.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I think Ashley has plateaued. She had that injury and an illness that affected her around Nationals, but early in the season when she was skating well she didn't attempt more difficulty like a 3-3. I don't think she will ever be able to do a combo with a 3T well because she just doesn't have much speed coming out of her jumps like Yuna or Carolina. As a fan I'm disappointed because I thought this year she would build upon her successful 2011-12 season, but she seems content to skate clean programs with less difficulty than other top skaters. However, adding her career high ISU scores for the SP and the LP would have only put her in 4th anyway so maybe she is achieving the best she can with her talent.
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
If she wants a shot at a World medal Ashley should definitely stick around after Sochi. If you look back in the last two quads, the most dominant ladies were the best jumpers. I don't see this changing any time soon, so she needs to grab her chance right after Sochi and before the young skaters close in and overtake her. I just don't see her getting consistent with 3/3's and 2A+3T's.
 

hippomoomin

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
I think she will stay 1 or 2 more years regardless and retire either after the 2015 or 2016 Worlds. Regardless if she improves technically or not with all the retirements she will atleast have a fighting shot at a medal at the 2015, and maybe 2014 (depending who goes) and 2016 (if she stays until then) Worlds. I dont think anyway she stays until 2018.

You are right. I really love Gracie and cannot wait for the day when she becomes the No.1 lady of the U.S. It is really just a matter of time.
And if Wagner is beaten more than once by Gracie, no matter what happens in the rest of the world, I don't see the point she does not retire. In fact, it is a shame that she does not have 3-3 and 2A-3 in her package, and she remains to be the US champion.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Wow Flatfan! Why are you so hateful? Frankly I think Ashley has come a long way especialy artisticaly. But I think Gold is the furture for the US.

I said exactly what she did. How is that hateful? She ain't gonna get a consistent 3x3 if she doesn't do them all the time.
Even Carolina Kostner, a far superior skater, had to test out her lutz/3x3 again and again in regional competitions to get ready for world. This girl thinks she can just pull them out at World? Really? Tim Goebel agrees it's close to impossible.

Don't be too sensitive.
 

hippomoomin

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Can I ask a question: Isn't it possible that Wagner and Gracie won't be the top 3 at the next nationals and either of them qualifies for the Olympics? It seems everyone talks as if Wagner is definitely going to the Olympics.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Can I ask a question: Isn't it possible that Wagner and Gracie won't be the top 3 at the next nationals and either of them qualifies for the Olympics? It seems everyone talks as if Wagner is definitely going to the Olympics.

Wagner is still the top American, perhaps by a small margin but she's clearly #1. Gracie has yet to skate clean enough to overtake her, and Ashley is relatively more consistent. I can see Gracie possibly overtaking Ashley next season, but three would have to surpass her and I don't see that happening so it's pretty safe she'll be an Olympian. However, I think only Gracie is potentially a medal threat because she has the content and GOE on the jumps to score well enough, and maybe over the summer she can develop more artistically to earn higher PCS.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
If they are both healthy, there is very little chance that either will be surpassed in the US...a clean Gold with her CURRENT PCS that she received at Worlds *could* challenge for a medal internationally at Worlds/Olympics (she gave up ~10-15 points on TES with the errors she made between the two programs between BVs and GOEs) and now that she's starting to "figure it out" competitively (how to channel the nerves and shut out the distractions), with her technique, she's going to be hard to surpass. Clean at her current PCS (which should increase as she finds her "voice" presentation-wise and choreographically), she would likely score ~65-68 in the SP and 130-5 in the LP. That's a pretty high score.

Wagner is well-respected internationally now (63+ PCS skating tentatively with a fall in your step sequence? Alrighty...) and has become very consistent under John Nicks technically. With the erratic nature of most of the current top US ladies, one might surpass her at Nationals if she plays it safe, but not two...
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
she might win a world medal it won't be gold, Gracie will be even more propped up to get the gold
and Gracie has already been buzzed as the next American lady superstar by the medal NOT Wagner
 

hippomoomin

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Wagner is still the top American, perhaps by a small margin but she's clearly #1. Gracie has yet to skate clean enough to overtake her, and Ashley is relatively more consistent. I can see Gracie possibly overtaking Ashley next season, but three would have to surpass her and I don't see that happening so it's pretty safe she'll be an Olympian. However, I think only Gracie is potentially a medal threat because she has the content and GOE on the jumps to score well enough, and maybe over the summer she can develop more artistically to earn higher PCS.

But what if it happens both Wagner and Gold do poorly at the 14 nationals, and one of them of both of them don't end up in top 3, I mean anything is possible (e.g., who even hoped/predicted Denis Ten would be the silver medalist). Would the federation go with the Russian approach and disregard the national results? A lot of things can happen in a year, or even in a few months.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
But what if it happens both Wagner and Gold do poorly at the 14 nationals, and one of them of both of them don't end up in top 3, I mean anything is possible (e.g., who even hoped/predicted Denis Ten would be the silver medalist). Would the federation go with the Russian approach and disregard the national results? A lot of things can happen in a year, or even in a few months.

Not going to happen. Case in point, Alissa Czisny in 2009. She bombed the LP so badly, but her PCS kept her at the top spot. They will give Hicks 50 in PCS and Wagner 70 in PCS to make sure they are on the team.

Russian approach is more gangster-style. You stay, you go, no reason needed. US approach is sneaky and despicable.

Gao would have to have 3A-4T to beat both of these girls, unfortunately.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Russian approach is more gangster-style. You stay, you go, no reason needed. US approach is sneaky and despicable.

I kind of agree here. Alena is a good example. The reigning WSM bombed nationals and was kicked off the Euro team in place of another low finisher (but who finished just ahead of Alena at her nationals). They gave her a chance to earn the worlds spot and she did.

In the US, she would have been marked into 1st or 2nd place and would not have to prove herself anywhere else.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
But what if it happens both Wagner and Gold do poorly at the 14 nationals, and one of them of both of them don't end up in top 3, I mean anything is possible (e.g., who even hoped/predicted Denis Ten would be the silver medalist). Would the federation go with the Russian approach and disregard the national results? A lot of things can happen in a year, or even in a few months.

The U.S has never disregarded the National results thus far. Hence why skaters too injured to possibly skate their best just wisely WD and ask for a bye. I think Wagner or Gold would get a bye if they WD with a legit injury, but would not be put on the team if they finished 4th or 5th. Anyway I dont see the US judges letting that happen. They will give out huge PCS and astronomical GOE on the few successful elements to keep either in the top 3 even with a disaester, something they did to a certain degree for both this year.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
But what if it happens both Wagner and Gold do poorly at the 14 nationals, and one of them of both of them don't end up in top 3, I mean anything is possible (e.g., who even hoped/predicted Denis Ten would be the silver medalist). Would the federation go with the Russian approach and disregard the national results? A lot of things can happen in a year, or even in a few months.

Well, first of all, I don't think they'll do poorly.

Gracie's TES alone would rocket her to the top of the standings (especially if she adds content like the 3F-Lo-3S, or even a 3A), and after finishing a respectable sixth at her first high-pressure, high-stakes Worlds, she should know how to manage her nerves. She'll obviously need a new choreographer if she wants to challenge for top 5 at the Olympics and a medal at Worlds next year. She still seems to hold off on selling the program until she lands all of her jumps, but even her artistry has made significant improvement since Nationals.

Ashley has also, as several posters before me have mentioned, gained a great deal of respect on the international circuit this season. She undoubtedly has the best presentation of the current crop of US ladies, and I think she understands the need for a 3-3 or 2A-3T that she can land consistently next season. If she can manage two respectable showings at the GP in the fall, she may become another "Reliable Rachael" (not to jinx her or anything)--a skater who can be counted on to hit when it counts. And we've all seen the US judges' favoring of her, even above a squeaky-clean Gracie.

But, in the event that they finish, say, fourth and fifth at 2014 Nationals, the USFSA would probably still send the two of them and the first place finisher. Part of it is entitlement--they earned the three spots, so why shouldn't they get to use them? Part of it is that most skaters (excepting Mirai Nagasu and a possible Czisny return) who finish above them wouldn't have the experience that Ashley and Gracie already do.
 
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