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Thread: Figure skating is dying, and judges can't prop it up

  1. #16
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Just because the arena isn't filled to capacity doesn't mean people aren't watching, I watched most of it on live feed, so much more convenient. BTW a friend of mine took pictures of the event on Friday and the place looked pretty darn full.

    I never bother with the gala, slightly more exciting than your average club carnival. Most skaters don't have a lot of time or energy to put into their show choreography and it shows. Not sure what kind of ratings it gets, suspect that the audience is not hard core skating fans but rather the general public looking for some nice family friendly entertainment.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I agree with this assessment (although I think skating's popularity would have declined anyway).

    What is even more frustrating is the ISU's response to this virtually universal judgment. "We don't care. We are above all that. We know what's best for the sport. Fans, television networks, Christine Brennen, go study the rule book and you will see how wonderful we are and how stupid you are not to want our product any more."
    There is definitely something wrong with the branding. I believe it was you, but there was a thread in this forum suggesting they keep the current scoring system but alter the way it's presented to the audience. That would be a good compromise. They really don't seem to have people thinking about these things, though. I'm guessing the ISU has no marketing team or what they do have lacks any sense of ingenuity.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by YunaBliss View Post
    I didn't bother to read these articles, but obviously, figure skating is very strong in Japan and Korea, and is getting increasingly popular in China and other parts of Asia. So if figure skating is "dying," then it is only "dying" in the US primarily, as many have already said. Plus, with rising stars like Gold and Osmond, I think the public interest in figure skating in US and North America will start to rise back.

    All in all, as far as ladies figure skating is concerned, I think with the current level of talents we have around the globe (basically the Top 10 ladies at this year's Worlds), the sport is in a better shape than it has ever been in terms of quality standpoint.
    ITA. If something dies in US it doesn't mean it dies everywhere. It's been so huge in Japan ever since Shizuka won OMG. Here in Poland I have many Japanese friends and even though they are miles away from their country in which the sport is so popular they still watch every competition on the Internet.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kissx3 View Post
    I believe it was you, but there was a thread in this forum suggesting they keep the current scoring system but alter the way it's presented to the audience.
    I think the problem isn't how it is presented, it's that people don't like the results. No scoring system can be presented in a way that makes it acceptable for someone with 4 major errors to beat a clean program from the closest competitor. The ISU has got to figure out a way to penalize errors so that top skaters are more motivated to skate clean rather than accrue points from jumps they can rotate but have trouble landing. It really is important they fix this because the eyes of the world will be on this sport in Sochi and I think a lot of people will be disgusted if we have some of the results we have seen in the last few years. Kostner's SP fall on the 3/3, including the -1 deduction, cost her < 3 points from that combo with 0 GOE. Had she fallen on her loop and lost another 3 points, she'd still be in 5th place.

  5. #20
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    This is a forum in English. Most of us are probably American, so of course we're upset about the decline of our favorite sport in our own country. I don't think it as bad in Canada, at least it is still broadcast, I believe. (And to the posters from other countries, you have some great English skills and are to be commended.

    I watched the women's long program on a pixilated, jerky feed from a link I found on this web site, that I'm not even sure was legal. (I tried to get onto it the next day to see the gala, and I was denied). I couldn't find a working link to watch the men's, dance or pairs. This is because I do not read Latvian, Italian or Russian and couldn't tell what to click on. In fact, I haven't seen a pairs program all year, and few short programs as well. I paid $40 to ice network, only to find that they didn't have live feeds to the worlds. So I basically gave up 2 $20 bills to watch a single short program.

    Two years ago, I would have watched all the disciplines on a nice full-sized tv on Universal sports, but that company decided to remove itself from 99% of all cable companies and block its website to subscribers of the 99% (and seems to blame us for "allowing" the cable companies to drop them.) Fifteen years ago, I would have watched it on network television in prime time.

    The decline of figure skating in the United States is shocking. I don't think I've ever seen a sport go from wildly popular to nearly dead so quickly. I know tennis and boxing are not what they were in the 70's, but that decline seemed more gradual. So telling Americans that they are somehow biased or xenophobic because they are concerned about this is not really fair. I'm glad it's popular in Asia, and I'm envious that the Japanese and Koreans get to see it easily, as we once did here in the US. But when a sport rather suddenly practically disappears from a huge, capitalist market, there is a problem.

  6. #21
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    Right yeah, that too. Falls, especially, need to be re-evaluated in how they are scored if the aim is to move back towards commercial appeal. You need the audience at large to feel like they know what's going on, it's that simple. I get the theory that we'd get watered-down content with harsher penalties for visible errors but I don't agree with it. The cream will still rise to the top and we won't have to explain and get all the apologist rambling/mathematician seminar going on about why that chick with 2 falls who stumbled out of every other jump won.

    Judging should also never have been made anonymous in the first place. There is no possible excuse on this earth for that one. Judges afraid for their lives I'm guessing would be the primary defence and that just deserves an eyeroll to the moon and back for so many reasons.

    Japan is definitely where all the money is these days. The degree of cultural penetration they still have there is amazing and any skater with a mind to make this a career should be working there as often as possible but the decline elsewhere is still an issue. There needs to be more experimentation on some level to correct it, stagnation isn't acceptable at this point.

  7. #22
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    Figure skating is dying

    If figure skating is dying, just get the coffin ready. Amen.

  8. #23
    Outdated Old Dinosaur
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven View Post
    Yes you prove my point, that's because Yuna left competition. They had nobody else to win anything. If you took a competition to Korea last year vs. Yuna ice show, which do you think Koreans would rather attend? Foreigners they don't know and don't really care about? Or someone they do know? It's the same in the U.S. Most Americans don't care about sports where Americans aren't dominant. Soccer(futbol) and F1 racing are not popular at all in the U.S. despite having very large international interest.
    Nonsense. American women are now a dominant force in gymnastics, but the rise in popularity had nothing to do with any American. 1972: Olga Korbut in Munich. 1976: Nadia Comeneci in Montreal. They inspired a generation of young girls from the big city and the farmland to tumble their way across America. Before them, gymnastics wasn't even popular enough to be a boutique sport.

    They were foreigners. Even worse... COMMUNISTS! And at the height of the Cold War, at that.

    Somebody at USA Gymnastics had the vision and gumption to capitalize on those moments and shift the athletic landscape in America. It's not the American sporting spirit that is lacking, but the leadership necessary to revive the sport.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzukifan27 View Post
    Burying your head in sand is going nowhere. I sensed that even South Korea is less crazy about FS these days than just two 2 years ago.
    Absolutely...where are all the yuna ubers...seems like hundreds were everywhere 3 years ago. Yuna herself didn't seem all that thrilled. Yes it is ethnocentric...that is the point. CANADA! LAND OF WINTER SPORTS ESP HOCKEY/FS! They have Chan, Osmond, Virtue Moir GOOD PAIR TEAMS! dumb cap key. Anyway, 7,000 is very small. Ten years ago CSOI I'm sure could sell that easily.

    The scoring may be producing some interesting skaters but clearly it's an issue for 6.0 fans of many years. Not televising it is crazy here in US. I looked but found nom NBC coverage, but I'm away so, maybe I missed it? I found nothing on NBC website. Anyone know if next weekend there will be some coverage? At least gold medal ice dancers? It is dreadful...can't grow new fans without TV coverage.

  10. #25
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    Why would it be up to the judges to prop it up? And if it were, how would they do that?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Why would it be up to the judges to prop it up? And if it were, how would they do that?
    I think the headline, which the thread title came from, was intended as a bit of a pun as the judges are perceived to have "propped up" skaters at Worlds.

  12. #27
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ^ I think the title of the article is supposed to be sardonic. Like, "The judges can prop up their pet skaters and give them victories that they don't deserve, but they can't prop up the sport as it tumbles off into the abyss." (Something like that.)

    Edited to add: What louisa05 said.
    Last edited by Mathman; 03-19-2013 at 11:16 AM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangogirl View Post
    Just because the arena isn't filled to capacity doesn't mean people aren't watching, I watched most of it on live feed, so much more convenient. BTW a friend of mine took pictures of the event on Friday and the place looked pretty darn full.

    I never bother with the gala, slightly more exciting than your average club carnival. Most skaters don't have a lot of time or energy to put into their show choreography and it shows. Not sure what kind of ratings it gets, suspect that the audience is not hard core skating fans but rather the general public looking for some nice family friendly entertainment.
    People watching on the internet for free will not help the sport survive. Unless arenas can be filled and TV broadcast rights sold, the sport will end up being only for the competitors and their friends and families, like curling or dressage.

  14. #29
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    There is a certain amount of "was robbed" "was held up"and those lyin' judges is simlpy a figure skating instution...If you think it's bad now, go back to the 6.0 system....With the 4th skater on the ice and 3 more to go and that 4th skater gets all 6.0's, what should the rest now...that was the 6.0 system. The judges could do what they wanted and no explanation..if they had a favourite she won, always. Sometimes I think the more the crowd cheered, the higher the more 6.0's she got. With the CoP, the judges had to explain where the marks came from and the fans with any knowledge of the sport, could almost figure out the score. No matter what system they use, in some people eyes, there will still be lyin' judges.

  15. #30
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    Think about it someone like Gracie Gold would have had no way to make it to Worlds this year if 6.0 was in place. If you were not in the top 3 you couldn't win unless strange things like the 2002 Olympics happened. 9th place no way. But she skated a technically dominate program and moved up while others faltered.

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