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Thread: It's Time For 6.0 To Return

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Also, IJS has resulted in much better overall skating. We go back to 6.0 and we'll see:

    - 3-3 combos in ladies and quads in men's disappear since you're not penalized for not including either in a program so why risk it
    - spins go back to 2 basic positions for 6 rotations; edge changes and difficult positions will be removed; fewer Biellmanns
    - back to basic footwork (forget seeing a rocker/counter/loop again)
    - shorter spirals
    - easier throws and SBS jumps in pairs; easier death spirals
    - Hanyu would just go into a 3A with a regular entry since there's no benefit to doing a counter before it
    - program transitions would be reduced considerably, as well as steps leading into jumps
    - ice dance will become theatre on ice again with pre-determined standings with teams not moving unless they make glaring errors, not that it mattered for Grishuk/Platov winning gold
    I don't think all of these are a bad thing,

    - Only Yuna does hard 3-3 combos of the top ladies. Under 6.0 every lady would be doing a lutz and a flip (except Mao doing an axel and flip), rather than a loop and a toe-toe. So I don't think the technical level is higher at all just because a lot of girls are doing a 3T-3T in the short.
    - I prefer spins done well rather than skaters trying to contort into uncomfortable looking positions just to hit levels. Although I do admit I like that difficult spins are rewarded, whereas you didn't need to spin well if you jumped well under 6.0.
    - Yes, footwork will be easier but I do like that shorter footwork gives the skater more time to execute choreography.
    - Shorter spirals? The is no spiral sequence now. And I miss it.
    - I don't necessarily agree that pairs jumps will be easier. Difficulty still isn't rewarded in the pairs jumps so the favorites will continue to do easier elements and make up for it on the 2nd mark.
    - There really isn't much benefit for Hanyu to do the difficult entry as it is because it only adds very little the the scoring of the jump (+1). But yes he does the entrance for that point.
    - I'm ok with fewer transitions because so many skaters don't do them well, with Patrick being an obvious exception. Kaetlyn, for example, does a lot but the positions are sloppy and I think I'd enjoy her programs more if she focused on her line.
    - Ice dance was greatly improved under COP, I agree.

    Overall, aside from ice dancing, I don't agree that all these "evolutions" have improved skating. Yes, it has made it harder but the programs are too hard for these skaters to perform clean, which is why you can have an excellent skater made several major errors and still win. For me, it makes the sport less approachable for the casual fan.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Factored placements are still dependent on score and judges can still manipulate placements, if not more. Michelle Kwan did 7 triples in her '95 Worlds FS and still came 4th overall (placed 3rd in the FS under skaters who made mistakes).

    IMO, Denis Ten, simply because he's not from a popular country, could have been pushed to 4th after the SP simply due to judges showing favouritism to Chan/Takahashi/Joubert. They could have given Ten 5.8 tech/5.3 artistry, Chan 5.9/5.9, ignored Takahashi's URs and gave him 5.7/5.8, given Joubert 5.7/5.4, even given Reynolds 5.8/5.4 for two quads. In the FS at this Worlds, a judge could have easily placed Ten (say, 5.5/5.5) behind Chan (5.1/5.9), in spite of Ten's clean skate.

    Also, IJS has resulted in much better overall skating. We go back to 6.0 and we'll see:

    - 3-3 combos in ladies and quads in men's disappear since you're not penalized for not including either in a program so why risk it
    - spins go back to 2 basic positions for 6 rotations; edge changes and difficult positions will be removed; fewer Biellmanns
    - back to basic footwork (forget seeing a rocker/counter/loop again)
    - shorter spirals
    - easier throws and SBS jumps in pairs; easier death spirals
    - Hanyu would just go into a 3A with a regular entry since there's no benefit to doing a counter before it
    - program transitions would be reduced considerably, as well as steps leading into jumps
    - ice dance will become theatre on ice again with pre-determined standings with teams not moving unless they make glaring errors, not that it mattered for Grishuk/Platov winning gold

    If you truly want your 6.0 system back, go watch old videos, because the sport needs to evolve and the CoP system is good for that. Standing and results aside, the skaters are much better than they were a decade ago. It might not be as watchable for casual viewers, but it's more accurate a system, and holds the judges more accountable. And it's there on paper exactly what each skater did and what they were deducted for or what they executed well, so it's good for the skaters' development too.

    WRONG on maybe all accounts.

    I love the argument that IJS makes this "more of a sport". Except, no, it didn't. The Technical difficulty is determines the group of skaters skating at the time and the way they push and force each other to higher and higher heights. Lest we forget that the technical difficulty was progressing JUST FINE under 6.0. 2010 was the only time since 1994 where the gold medalist didn't do a quad. Tech actually regressed under IJS, for a time.

    -YuNa and others would be doing 3-3s in competition. Every Olympic champion since 1992 except for Oksana and Shizuka attempted or completed a triple-triple and Shizuka only didn't because Sasha and Slutskaya crapped the bed in the long. Every OGM since 1998 except for Evan did a quad. Every world champ besides Jeff Buttle attempted or completed a quad since 1996 (Todd Eldridge). Tech was progressing. Your opinion is wrong.

    -You see this as a positive? Sure, spins are more focused on now. However, there are some fugly sit, catchfoot, and camel positions that have nothing to do with anything besides points.

    -Footwork was progressing as well. I've already made this argument, that Yagudin helped put more focus on footwork, that is Yagudin's lasting mark (besides the fact that he's one of the top 5 or top 3 male figure skaters of all time). You say "easier", I say footwoork that complements the music. Again difficulty for the sake of points and not much more.

    -Shorter spirals? WHAT? Now I think you're trolling. Seriously, get a clue.

    -I don't care about pairs. However, If I never see another catchfoot death spiral or lift it will be too soon.

    -The Transitions/Footwork into jumps score: Sometimes less is more. I'm all for transitions and choreo/footwork into jumps as long as it goes with the music. Movement for the sake of movement or points doesn't interest me. A real artist knows when and how much to move his body for maximum impact. Again: Sometimes less is more.

    -Ice dance can keep IJS. It's actually HAS made that discipline into a sport.

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