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Thread: Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I thought you were arguing all the way that Plushenko is better. So in the end, the most we can say is - Plushenko is no difference than Patrick Chan. Even worse. Plushenko is taking the revenge now.
    I am just not good at English which is not my mother language.
    I think Plushy is different from Chan. As far as I know, he has never said with contempt about Chan's personal stuff (as Chan often says against his rivals), but talked about his skating or a result this time. It is not the same.
    He might be just having Canadian or Chinese manner, always to be frank and sometimes rude. But I don't know if it is true because my Canadian and Chinese friends are very good people.

  2. #92
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    Yes, it is true Plushy is the man who knows COP so well - remember Vancouver Olympics. Didn't do a 3 jump combo that cost him gold or the heavy front loaded program - no bonuses or the lack of transitions? And Chan lost the freeskate and rightfully so but the other men other than Ten also had their problems.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    True, last years Worlds would have been quite acceptable if Dai had atleast won the LP. Chan skated a very good short and Dai bombed the short, and Chan really only had one big mistake in the long so winning could be justified. Unfortunately for Chan his even more controversial win at this years Worlds basically means last years controversy will seem that much more too as well. That is happens when you are a skater who is held up repeatedly.

    So can we not say the same about Mao, Carolina, S squared? they make mistakes and still find themselves constantly being held up. At least Carolina and Chan hae great skating skills.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Yes, it is true Plushy is the man who knows COP so well - remember Vancouver Olympics. Didn't do a 3 jump combo that cost him gold or the heavy front loaded program - no bonuses or the lack of transitions? And Chan lost the freeskate and rightfully so but the other men other than Ten also had their problems.
    Yeah a proper cop program for vancouver would have included no quad. So he should have not done any quads and done a program with a 3/5 layout and spent quad training time on step sequences and getting a 3/5 layout. Done the lysacek Oda brezina chan program. First thing would have been to take ouT the quad

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Plushenko himself is asking for that by jumping right into it.



    Let's be clear of this. Plushenko will not win Sochi with or without mistakes. There are simply too many top skaters he needs to concour. The best he might do is to stay on the podium. You don't have to believe me, though.
    My guess, you never watched Plushenko skate after Oly 2010. Ten almost won Worlds 2013 over the rest and it doesn't tell you anything?
    Plushenko has good chance as a few other askaters to win in Sochi and he doesn't need to be clean, or have many quads, last two Worlds and a few other competitions proved that. It is a fact. Lets keep this consistancy till Sochi!

    None of the current skaters have maturity into their skating like Plushenko has, may be exept Dai, but his jumps are not textbook and if judge correcly mostly should be -goe if no difficult entrance/exit.
    Chan got free pieces of cake for two years in a row.

    This Plushenko twitt was entirly for Denis and to congratulate him and explain to Denis why he didn't win. End of story.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Yes, it is true Plushy is the man who knows COP so well - remember Vancouver Olympics. Didn't do a 3 jump combo that cost him gold or the heavy front loaded program - no bonuses or the lack of transitions? And Chan lost the freeskate and rightfully so but the other men other than Ten also had their problems.
    Oh, the irony...... Plushenko lost to Sandhu at the GPF and lost to Lysacek at the OWG with what he thought were perfect performances, but left points on the table by failing to get the most points under the system's rules, costing him the gold. Ten downgrading to a 2F-2T left 7 points on the table which would have easily got him the win. So I can see why Plushenko would sympathize with Ten.

    Unfortunately for Ten and Plushenko, the system is based on gaining points for what you do by following the rules, and not just going clean, hence not maximizing your base value will put you at a disadvantage.

    If instead of 2F-2T Ten accidentally did a 3Z-3T combo, and negated the 10 points for that combo by Zayaking, I'm sure people would be less sympathetic to his loss -- even though anyone watching would be like "Whoa he went clean and there's the 3-3!"..... so the same should apply to him downgrading two triples.

    It's maybe not a question of whether Chan deserves a world title so much as did Ten get the marks he deserved that put him within reach of a World title. Let's not forget the judges gave him +3s on many elements (rightfully so), but also gave him better PCS than Takahashi, Hanyu and Fernandez. As if his Choreo and Interpretation was better than Takahashi?!

    I'll say it again, Chan was overmarked, yes, but so was Ten. Both should have been 10 points lower than their FS total. Ten ended up getting 175 with one quad and no triple-triple.

  7. #97
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    Plush is Russian. The next Olympics is in Russia. He is very well respected in his home country. It will be interesting to see how the audience/fans in Russia react to Chan and if the judges are influenced by so many skaters' negative opinions of Chan's gold medal at this Worlds.

    In general I think Chan was overmarked in both programs and that cemented his win. He is an awesome skater but his gold medal will be marred by the controversy surrounded his questionable win over Ten.

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    Yes, but Ten was also overmarked in his programs, maybe not to the extent of Chan, and it might have made a difference in the long run, but we'll never know. Ten was 5 points PCS-wise less than Chan after Chan's clean SP, and was 2 points less in PCS than Chan in the FS... Chan also received almost 4 points less than his personal best PCS in the FS, so his PCS was marked lower.

    As for the Olympics, I don't think the judges will be influenced by this backlash. As much as Ten might have deserved the victory, and part of me definitely thinks he does, there were many factors other than PCS inflation that contributed to Chan's victory.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    So can we not say the same about Mao, Carolina, S squared? they make mistakes and still find themselves constantly being held up. At least Carolina and Chan hae great skating skills.
    S&S's World title in 2008 was a farce IMO, but atleast they didnt make as many mistakes as Chan this year, and their competitors also skated mediocre or worse, apart from Dube & Davison who were too far back in the SP to win. Kostner won her only World title with a beautiful if slightly simple skate, and Asada won her 2 World titles with excellent skate apart from the one stomach plant going into a planned 3 axel. None of these skaters come close to the level of being held up as Chan.

    As to whether there would be backlash at the Games, maybe backlash isnt the right word, but I ensure of one thing. The judges will be extra careful now to not let a result happen like that at the Games, in other words if those two performances were done at the Games Ten would win. The last thing the judges or anyone in figure skating wants is a scandal to top SLC, and if there is one, figure skating will be out of the Olympics for a good while. In Chan's case the news of his bogus win has spread far enough he will be scored with some extra scrutiny if anything.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Yes, it is true Plushy is the man who knows COP so well - remember Vancouver Olympics. Didn't do a 3 jump combo that cost him gold or the heavy front loaded program - no bonuses or the lack of transitions? And Chan lost the freeskate and rightfully so but the other men other than Ten also had their problems.
    Plushenko knows CoP fine. He has won his Olympic gold, an Olympic silver, and countless European titles under CoP. He knows the CoP well enough to know that as long as he lands his jumps, skates with charisma and is Plushenko, he'll get high marks. It doesn't matter if he has no transitions and no choreography and a crap front-loaded program, he'll still get 8s and 9s in PCS. Just look at his scores at 2012 Europeans. Heck, even his scores at the Olympics are really high for what he actually put out there on the ice.

    Plushenko's only mistake was to actually point out the hypocrisy of this prior to the Vancouver Olympics, thus causing the whole controversy in the first place and forcing everyone to scrutinize his inflated PCS for that one competition. I have a feeling that if he didn't open his mouth, he'd probably be a 2-time Olympic champion today.

  11. #101
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    Yes Plushenko was quite stupid. Vancouver was sort of a no win as Lysacek as Oly Champ was not great, and Plushenko winning with his blah performances there wasnt either. I still dont understand if Chan can win with 5 or 6 falls, why someone like Takahashi couldnt have won based on quality light years beyond Plushenko and Lysacek with only 1 in Vancouver, and based on the points wasnt even close. Judging of the mens event and skating have collided to reach a new all time low the last 5 years, and it is becoming increasingly hard to tell which has become more ghastly bad than the other. Years from now the 2008-2013/2014 period will be chucked as a throwaway to most people looking back at the history of mens singles, kind of like 1977-1981 for womens, as if it never existed.

  12. #102
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    All of this Plushenko is great, can't be beaten, walks or skates on water yada! yada! is going to be a moot point unless he can skate at all!!!! And then he's going to have to skate lights out. I don't believe he knows the COP system that well or he probably would have won the Vancouver Olympics and not cried and whined about how quads should be more important. Clearly they werent. Maybe they still aren't. In the meantime, people are living in the past. Let's see what he's able to do between now and Sochi! Same goes for Chan, Ten, Fernandez, Dai, etc. There's pretty much a clean slate now. The run for the gold begins now....not 4 years ago, not 2 weeks ago......NOW!!!!!

    It's going to be a case of "what have you done for us lately!"

    But carry on - it's amusing reading the squabbles.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    All of this Plushenko is great, can't be beaten, walks or skates on water yada! yada! is going to be a moot point unless he can skate at all!!!! And then he's going to have to skate lights out. I don't believe he knows the COP system that well or he probably would have won the Vancouver Olympics and not cried and whined about how quads should be more important. Clearly they werent. Maybe they still aren't. In the meantime, people are living in the past. Let's see what he's able to do between now and Sochi! Same goes for Chan, Ten, Fernandez, Dai, etc. There's pretty much a clean slate now. The run for the gold begins now....not 4 years ago, not 2 weeks ago......NOW!!!!!

    It's going to be a case of "what have you done for us lately!"

    But carry on - it's amusing reading the squabbles.
    Rest assured, Plushenko's place in figure skating history is secured, whether he competes again or not. The same cannot be said for some other athletes,

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    All of this Plushenko is great, can't be beaten, walks or skates on water yada! yada! is going to be a moot point unless he can skate at all!!!! And then he's going to have to skate lights out. I don't believe he knows the COP system that well or he probably would have won the Vancouver Olympics and not cried and whined about how quads should be more important. Clearly they werent. Maybe they still aren't. In the meantime, people are living in the past. Let's see what he's able to do between now and Sochi! Same goes for Chan, Ten, Fernandez, Dai, etc. There's pretty much a clean slate now. The run for the gold begins now....not 4 years ago, not 2 weeks ago......NOW!!!!!

    It's going to be a case of "what have you done for us lately!"

    But carry on - it's amusing reading the squabbles.
    How is Plushenko's competitiveness in Sochi relevant to the topic at hand, or even relevant to the question of how well he knows CoP?

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilywang View Post
    Rest assured, Plushenko's place in figure skating history is secured, whether he competes again or not. The same cannot be said for some other athletes,
    The other skater in question's place is also secured but it may not be how he wants to be remembered.

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