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Thread: Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title

  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I never said his program is "empty". He's consistent, and his difficulty/consistency lends itself to a great performance. I'm saying that he doesn't have expression/difficult choreography consistently throughout his program. Like I said, he goes into jump mode, and when he executes that, he starts being expressive, until he has to go into jump mode again.

    I think his injury and bombed SP at Euros was indicative that his body is no longer what it used to be. I never counted him out even in 2010 when he hadn't been competitive for years, because he had yet to show weakness in his skating and jumping. Due to injury, he has shown weakness in his skating... which is hard to overcome, let alone actually increase your difficulty following surgery by having 2 quads. This isn't something like the mental focus errors Chan has been having in his poor recent competitions (we all know that he can do a 2A/3Z/combo spin, same with Yuzuru who had a bad Worlds with freak errors and like Chan has fallen on a spin this season too). These can be overcome a lot easier than the physical burden of an injury and how that limits your ability. I have no question that Plushenko is mentally as tough and determined as he ever was, but we now have evidence that his body simply might not allow him to be a contender.
    For your first argument, the "switching mode" maybe existing in your eyes, for many people, they are perfectly OK. Probably his expressive part is too intensive so by contrast, certain moments seems less expressive. But that is still better than Chan's performance IMO since it is just plain blank.

    As I said, if you use what you argue now to start your argument of not be able to compete with multiple quads with other guys, maybe your argument might sound less arrogant and acceptable. Too late for that since your tone is set.

  2. #422
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Maybe his set up for quad is his secret for successfully landing it. It certainly creates a drama at the beginning of the program. But I sometimes envy the lose posture of Joubert when going for the quad, it looks cool.
    Can someone send me the Mercendez advertisment on pm?Or any other if he has done recently?
    Last edited by seniorita; 04-19-2013 at 04:11 PM.

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Maybe his set up for quad is his secret for successfully landing it. It certainly creates a drama at the beginning of the program. But I sometimes envy the lose posture of Joubert when going for the quad, it looks cool.
    Can someone send me the Mercendez advertisment on pm?Or any other if he has done recently?
    For the Mercedez ads, only pictures of shooting (http://evgeni-plushenko.com/forum/vi...rt=2230#p78026), probably not released yet.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Maybe his set up for quad is his secret for successfully landing it.
    Thank you! If skaters would pay attention to what they are doing out there, instead of trying to dance the jitterbug when they should be preparing their quad, they could all be Plushenkos.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Maybe his set up for quad is his secret for successfully landing it.
    Good point.

    What is the point of transitions leading up to a jump when the the jump itself is a complete failure? Nowadays I find it really hard to convince my friends to watch a figure skating competition, all they do is screaming Ouch! with all those falls.

    And speaking of artistry, can you imagine enjoying a ballet with dancers falling all over the place?

  6. #426
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Maybe his set up for quad is his secret for successfully landing it.
    Yes. That's my opinion too. I remember, Plushy said, if you want a succesful quad, you need speed.

  7. #427
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    There are no transitions in Chan's skating before the quad and 3A. Actually Plushenko has more transitions before those jumps. If Plushenko has jump mode before first three dificult jumps, then Chan skates through whole program with jump mode and zero facial emotions.
    If Plushenko needs 2 quads, according to someone here, then Chan needs 3 quads and two 3A to beat Plushenko with 2 quads. Assuming Plushenko will be 100%)))

    Why no one said Chan needs second 3A in LP and 4-3-3

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Mountain, molehill. Plushenko congratulated Denis Ten for a great performance and said, hey man, you shoulda won. He said, man, there's something wrong when a guy can fall four times and win the world championship.

    That's it.
    Exactly!

    But some people trying "to suck out something from finger"
    Chan's pr machine in full power trying to picture Chan is better skater then Plushenko with THREE Olympic medals, because he has more meaningless transitions and "good" choreography so he can't execute the program clean.

    Speechless

  9. #429
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bestskate8 View Post
    Exactly!

    But some people trying "to suck out something from finger"
    Chan's pr machine in full power trying to picture Chan is better skater then Plushenko with THREE Olympic medals, because he has more meaningless transitions and "good" choreography so he can't execute the program clean.

    Speechless
    Exactly. I hate the too many transitions, those are make me nervous, and I also hate the new kind of footwork.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Well clearly you have time on your hands to respond to me and follow it up with your own trolling... I mean, Plu has a Benz? What the heck does that have to do with anything?
    I always have time for trolling trolls, which is not the same as feeding them, mind. Because no matter how incredibly stupid things they say (like the one that having a Benz has nothing to do with anything ), sooner or later all my attempts to educate them start working and they finally speak some shadow of sense:
    Figure skating isn't even close to as popular in Canada as it is in Japan and Russia
    So, basically you are saying that all pathetic tricks with second OGM in SLC and miserable cheating with Chan score ended up with one and the same result- figure skating there is still in the poo. And no hopes for better. The only thing that puzzles me is when those folks finally realize that NOTHING will change until cheating with score takes place. None of your fake champions are rich, and being Benz-rich for an athlete does mean smth.: success and recognition by public. Your fake champions failed to convince fans that they are true champs and failed to attract new fans to fs world. Which basically makes them be losers. The point is no one cares that they are losers. What people do care is that cheating with score via CoP destroys sport INTERNATIONALLY, not particularly in Canada or NA only. I am sure Plu knows every well that Chan will never be on the same level of celebrity as Plu already is. But the whole career of PLu was related with this sport. I am more than sure he will continue working with fs after retirement. Of course in terms of business he is not interested in declining popularity of fs. That's why he had to speak out to protect the credibility of this sport. At least he tried.

    The reason I use "likely" and "probably" is to imply that I'm predicting something. I use "fact" to describe certainties. Like, FACT: Plushenko has one quad in his program (he hasn't had more than one since well before the last Olympics... not to mention I said it in the context of he would need to get a 2nd quad, so maybe read the rest of the post next time?)... just like FACT: Chan/Hanyu have 2 quads (but might do 3 in Sochi, who knows!). And based on most recent results, sure Chan has fallen. But by that logic, we can assume Plushenko will swiffer the ice with his butt just like he did at Euros and screw up two major jumping passes, and won't even attempt a quad in the SP, and withdraws before the LP, right?
    Your crystal ball or whatever voodoo you use for your preditions is surely out of date. People already answered you here to enlighten you regarding the facts that are not aware of, so no need for me to repeat them. ... Just like FACT: Chan have multiple falls. What do you mean by "based on most recent results"? When did you start watching fs competitions? Obviously just recently. Chan has been falling around for his entire career.
    By bringing Euros, you're just grabbing at straws to bash Plu, aren't you, when you clearly have a giat chip on your shoulder for Plu? Or, wait. It must be again your plain ignorance- "forgot" about spinal disc and injury. Or maybe never knew.
    I agree with the mods, you're tiresome and and bring nothing to the table
    I used the search button and found nothing about mods' talking me being "tiresome" and "bring nothing to the table." The burden of proof is on the person making claims. If you have no evidence, then you own mods the apology for slandering them. Techinically speaking. In fact since you failed to prove your argument, you bring mods on the table as your backup. Too childish. Yawn.
    It's rather pointless bantering with you.
    It's always like that. They promise you, but they are back the same instant:
    Then what would you call Verner winning Europeans (and getting silver/bronze two other years)?

    Quote Originally Posted by bestskate8 View Post
    Chan's pr machine in full power trying to picture Chan is better skater then Plushenko with THREE Olympic medals, because he has more meaningless transitions and "good" choreography so he can't execute the program clean.
    PR machine itself already admitted that tricks with score are not working- the sport popularity is not available at the moment in Canada. The more I read the stuff the more I am getting convinced that all this is due to plain jealousy: ”if I cannot be as popular as your guys in your countries, with a benz and stuff, then I at least can steal your medals and sleep well full of satisfaction.” Pathetic.


    Too many meaningless transitions is a way to hide the lack of true artistism I think.

  11. #431
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    What I don’t enjoy about these discussions is when it starts to drift away from skating and turn in the direction of personal animosity. Patrick Chan may be a convenient symbol for what we perceive as flaws in the current judging system. He did not set off a bomb at the Boston Marathon.

  12. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    What I don’t enjoy about these discussions is when it starts to drift away from skating and turn in the direction of personal animosity. Patrick Chan may be a convenient symbol for what we perceive as flaws in the current judging system. He did not set off a bomb at the Boston Marathon.
    👍

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by bestskate8 View Post
    There are no transitions in Chan's skating before the quad and 3A. Actually Plushenko has more transitions before those jumps. If Plushenko has jump mode before first three dificult jumps, then Chan skates through whole program with jump mode and zero facial emotions.
    If Plushenko needs 2 quads, according to someone here, then Chan needs 3 quads and two 3A to beat Plushenko with 2 quads. Assuming Plushenko will be 100%)))

    Why no one said Chan needs second 3A in LP and 4-3-3
    It's absolutely delusional to say Chan has less transitions into his quads or 3A, particularly comparing it to Plushenko. Also the points people are making about him setting up drama as a reason for practically zero choreography and simply stroking towards his quad to start his programs is even more ridiculous. If people are actually lauding him a lack of content and playing it off as purposeful or beneficial to his program (when its so obviously the opposite) then I put you in the same category as those who argue that at least Carolina's falls went with the music.

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by bestskate8 View Post
    Exactly!

    But some people trying "to suck out something from finger"
    Chan's pr machine in full power trying to picture Chan is better skater then Plushenko with THREE Olympic medals, because he has more meaningless transitions and "good" choreography so he can't execute the program clean.

    Speechless
    Plushenko is the best skater ever if you go by his jumping ability, consistency, theatrics, and accolades (and Mercedes Benz sponsorships, apparently). He is far better than Chan at jumping consistency but he's also better than arguably every skater there ever was. But he has never had the actual choreography, finesse, originality and skating quality of a Lambiel, Buttle, Chan, Takahashi, Kwan, etc.

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Plushenko is the best skater ever if you go by his jumping ability, consistency, theatrics, and accolades (and Mercedes Benz sponsorships, apparently). He is far better than Chan at jumping consistency but he's also better than arguably every skater there ever was. But he has never had the actual choreography, finesse, originality and skating quality of a Lambiel, Buttle, Chan, Takahashi, Kwan, etc.

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