Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title | Page 7 | Golden Skate

Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title

Status
Not open for further replies.

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Didn't read the entire thread.

Essentially, COP won the program. The scoring system has to be penalize falls more heavily, as well as take points away for the little trips/stumbles. I know that GOE goes negative, but that's not visible. If they had deducted 2 pts per fall, Chan would not have won.

Chan's far from my favorite male skater. However, I could appreciate that he has excellent qualities in his in-betweens. However, IMHO, those shouldn't have been enough - I didn't think his lead from the SP was that insurmountable after seeing the various mistakes in Chan's performance.

As far as 2010, I didn't have a problem with Evan over Evgeni because Skating is more than jumps and Evan didn't fall.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
Wow to be in the books of history is not small feat.

IIRC, and it has been a long time since my school days, there were any number of people in the history books... and not for celebratory reasons.
 

LRK

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 13, 2012
IIRC, and it has been a long time since my school days, there were any number of people in the history books... and not for celebratory reasons.

"Why is that we always break up our history by the .. the wars, not the years of peace? --- Why the war and not the peace? Because it's exciting, and because on some level people like to see something big fall apart and explode from the inside out. And right now, John, we're that something." (B5 quote)

:)
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
I thought you were arguing all the way that Plushenko is better. So in the end, the most we can say is - Plushenko is no difference than Patrick Chan. Even worse. Plushenko is taking the revenge now.:rofl:

Eh, no. He could have taken revenge not once, but he praised Chan's skating in interviews. He never said bad thing about Chan. After WCH he had an opinion, and he wrote on twitter. So simply. And as I said he is always sincere, but I can not deny he knew, that if he writes such an interesting message like this, many FS fans will know it. And they will love and hate him because of it.
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Didn't read the entire thread.

Essentially, COP won the program. The scoring system has to be penalize falls more heavily, as well as take points away for the little trips/stumbles. I know that GOE goes negative, but that's not visible. If they had deducted 2 pts per fall, Chan would not have won.
Chan's far from my favorite male skater. However, I could appreciate that he has excellent qualities in his in-betweens. However, IMHO, those shouldn't have been enough - I didn't think his lead from the SP was that insurmountable after seeing the various mistakes in Chan's performance.

As far as 2010, I didn't have a problem with Evan over Evgeni because Skating is more than jumps and Evan didn't fall.

That is wrong statment, COP has all tools to penalize or to award Chan's skating. The problem are judges, who don't apply properly the tool COP gives them exclusively towards Chan. His LP choreo is terrible, because he can't execute it, his P/I was poor. The judges should apply proper marks for these three around 5-6. Simple.
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
That was past. No one is arguing otherwise. It's useless to repeat that as if repeating that more times, Plushenko is going to win next Olympics.:biggrin:

You and many others said the same things before Vancouver 2010, and the history was made by Plushenko with two clean skates, including two 4-3 and three 3A. And Chan ended up 5th :p

As russian would say: Never say "gop" before the jump.;)
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
You and many others said the same things before Vancouver 2010, and the history was made by Plushenko with two clean skates, including two 4-3 and three 3A. And Chan ended up 5th :p

As russian would say: Never say "gop" before the jump.;)

Obviously either you don't know me at all or you have very bad memory. I have never said anything that sort before and after Vancouver.:biggrin:
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
That is wrong statment, COP has all tools to penalize or to award Chan's skating. The problem are judges, who don't apply properly the tool COP gives them exclusively towards Chan. His LP choreo is terrible, because he can't execute it, his P/I was poor. The judges should apply proper marks for these three around 5-6. Simple.

As in 5.00-6.00 for CH/PE/IN? Um, look at the LP scores. http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2013/SEG002.HTM I know you probably hate Chan, but you're essentially suggesting he should have been out of the top 20 in these PCS scores. Talk about wrong statements!
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
You and many others said the same things before Vancouver 2010, and the history was made by Plushenko with two clean skates, including two 4-3 and three 3A. And Chan ended up 5th :p

As russian would say: Never say "gop" before the jump.;)

To be fair, Chan's injury from the year threw a wrench in his adding the quad to his repertoire with consistency. His world record performance (which bested any mark set previously by Plushenko :p) the following year at Worlds was what he probably intended to bring to the Olympics. There's no denying though that Plushenko had the cleanest skates of the past two Olympics.
 

yaya124

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
That was past. No one is arguing otherwise. It's useless to repeat that as if repeating that more times, Plushenko is going to win next Olympics.:biggrin:

Even Plushenko himself only said that if he could end it up on podium in Sochi it would be wonderful. We fans also know judging from his health status and age, to win gold is extremely hard so no illusion here. I know a lot of his fans only wish that he could deliver two good programs and be happy with it.

And let us face it, if you are not entering into a competition to win, you certainly have no chance to win because you do not have such heart to deliver. So Plushenko knows his chance and nonetheless he will give it all to fight. That is it.

I thought you were arguing all the way that Plushenko is better. So in the end, the most we can say is - Plushenko is no difference than Patrick Chan. Even worse. Plushenko is taking the revenge now.:rofl:

Be to fair, "Chan does not deserve the world title" is not Plushenko's original words. Journalist put it into his mouth. He never said Chan is bad skater, on the contrary he always said Chan is a good skater. Even after this year's WC, he said Chan is "not a bad skater".

I agree Plushenko doesnt have a hope in Sochi, even a bronze is only an extremely small chance. I fail to see what that has to do with the validity of what he said though. That seems to be all the discussion is about, not about Plushenko's Sochi chances (which even his diehard fans concede is quite small).

Exactly.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Yaya, :thumbsup: Yes. I just wish Plushy two good programs in Sochi! If he will compete..we don't know.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
He will definitely compete, if he's able to walk.

I'm hoping, however, that he wins Russian Nationals again convincingly ... it would suck if he placed 4th or 5th and the Russian fed sent him to Sochi anyways as they did with Kovtun this year.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
There's something so inspiring about Plushy's endurance that I really hope he wins Russian Nationals and makes it to Sochi with a great "credit rating." My gold-medal dream is Daisuke, but I want to see Plushy wow the crowd, and all of us millions of (tape-delay) viewers across the globe. The guy's already gone down in history, but a little more history would be pretty awesome, yes?
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I think he would be making some history just by showing up. Most male skaters are lucky to get to 2 Olympics, but 4 would be amazing. I don't think he'll get a medal, but who knows with him. I would love for him to get a better choreographed program because he'll need to face off against guys who now match his technical content.
 

KwanIsALegend

Fly On
Medalist
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Plushenko is right, it is ridiculous that Chan won and everyone knows it. Watch out for SP over scoring, this is the result. It is a pretty neat trick the judges have come up with. It is also one of the reasons skating is losing it's audience. Too many deserving skaters have gotten the shaft, people get frustrated with it and stop watching. This whole judging/scoring system needs an overhaul.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Can we as even semi rational people look at this situation like Kostner and many of her medals and Squared and even Mao, Lambiel and Buttle. Can all these trained judges under COP be wrong? Were they all bribed? Can you know see the parameters onthes coring how while you missed some things you picked it up in other areas. So the theory is all thejudges are biased "idiots"? Come on folks - where is the evidence. Denis ten skate his best but over all it wasn't enogh and the quality of his skating is ho hum. Maybe we are saying no gold should have been given? But then we can say that for many medals probably.
 

yaya124

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Can we as even semi rational people look at this situation like Kostner and many of her medals and Squared and even Mao, Lambiel and Buttle. Can all these trained judges under COP be wrong? Were they all bribed? Can you know see the parameters onthes coring how while you missed some things you picked it up in other areas. So the theory is all thejudges are biased "idiots"? Come on folks - where is the evidence. Denis ten skate his best but over all it wasn't enogh and the quality of his skating is ho hum. Maybe we are saying no gold should have been given? But then we can say that for many medals probably.

Chan's score is inflated (in many people's opinion) does not mean other skaters marks (Kostner, Mao, V/T for some competitions) are not inflated. Nobody argue that. Why Chan is spot on star for the argument: 1. this post is all about Plushenko's opinion on Chan's winning; 2. Chan won the GM; 3. his LP performance is just a disaster. Chan's performance probably deserves THIS GM in IJS book. But this win is just plain ugly. The LP is just too messy to let anybody proudly point out "that is the winner". So it leads to the argument whether the system is terribly flawed and need to be modified to avoid this from happening again.

As for the over score part, personally I really doubt with this particular performance Chan should get the PE and IN marks that high. So many mistakes and PE 8.6, really? And as messy as that the IN is 8.96, really?


TO CanadianSkaterGuy, why do you think Plushenko will take it as granted if he only finished 4th or 5th at RN and head to Olympics? If Plushenko is healthy enough, he will not allow himself making so many mistakes in a program so that he will end it up in lower placement. Then the question will be do you really think a clean Plushenko will not beat other RUSSIAN skaters in RN? Highly doubted. But I think all the speculations are meaningless since even Plushenko himself does not know whether his back can handle all these loads.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top