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Thread: Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post


    Oh, no. In Europe and Asia he is an artist on ice. His artistic strengths to carry him when the jumps weren't quite perfect. He received his first perfect 6.0 mark when he was 16, the youngest ever for a man, and by the time the old system was mothballed after the 2003-04 season, Plushenko had amassed 75 perfect 6.0s, including the last four given out to a male competitor at the Worlds 2004, for free skating presentation. I remember not too long ago you also said he is an artistic skater

    About Vancouver: Well, everyone moved on, but European FS analysts said the decision to award Evan the gold medal over Evgeni was debatable, because Plushenko's jumps were landed-neither two-foot nor underrotation but Evan did mistakes-which are not visible to non-specialists. (Underrotated 3A wrong edge on his flip). The Eurosport commentary over Christmas2010 was quite amusing in its understated mockery of Lysacek's victory.

    for ex
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PWM2NESsGw 2001, he beat Yagudin everywhere, anybody said he is only a technical skater? No, of course, listen to the european commentarors! They were ecstatic like the crowd too..." phenomenal, outstanding, fantastic, just brilliant, unbeliveable" and so on.. three 6.0, one tech. and two 6.0 for his presentation...
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aQdGyJQ1cU because enjoyable to watch..., sorry, if you have time.)
    Judging from his ID you really do not need to argue with him on this. And if he found nothing worth watching except jumps from Plushenko's programs, I doubt you can convince him to do otherwise. Just leave him in peace with his opinion.

  2. #167
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    If plushenko is an incredible artist, I wonder if harlem shake is art as well. Many of his programs (especially after his comeback in 2009) are just crazy frenetic moves that could go along with any background music, with kisses, fist pumps, "sexy" stares at the judges, and some really weird moves (hand on his opened mouth in 2010 LP, hips shaking out of context, etc). He has amazing personality, presence and charisma, but art on ice? I wouldn't go that far, especially after his comeback. He had some good programs before, like tribute to nijinsky, but most of his choreos are just...cheesy.

    Don't hate me for the comment, I really respect Plushenko and I think he is a superman, but calling Plushenko an artist on ice is a little disrespectful to skaters like Lambiel, Takahashi and Buttle. He is more like a great entertainer and performer, in my humble opinion.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I don't like everything he says, but I admire his skating immensely, and he's certainly far more than just a jumping machine.

    I'm chuckling at the "gold + silver = platinum." Hey, there's nothing wrong with saying, "I think he's so wonderful that he's better than a gold medalist. He's platinum." Remember the wonderful gold maple leaf that Canadians gave Kurt Browning after he didn't medal at the 1994 Olympics? Some skaters transcend rankings.

    Not to argue with anyone, but the geek in me cannot resist pointing out that there is actually an alloy of gold and silver (plus other metals) called electrum. Maybe someone could give Plushy an electrum medal? Platinum is actually a separate element, not related to gold or silver. It's one of the rarest elements, even rarer than gold. Like gold, it doesn't corrode easily. Geek moment over!
    He is always sincere, and after he ready to fight. He is such a man. I know only a case where he not usually tell the truth, when he says the same thing to the Japanese and to the Italian fans: "Japan is my second home." and "Italy is my second home." In both country he has a huge fan camp.

    I also thought, that gold and silver is platinum, thank you Olympia! Electrum??? :O. I don't like the platinum medal, because his haters easy to use against Plushy. But he didn't give myself. Who follows him, knows very well. He also received from the Russians a "People's medal". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3Puq0TDe30 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doJkdG-0HVs that was more than 1 kg (I don't know how many pounds :( )

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    Don't hate me for the comment, I really respect Plushenko and I think he is a superman, but calling Plushenko an artist on ice is a little disrespectful to skaters like Lambiel, Takahashi and Buttle. He is more like a great entertainer and performer, in my humble opinion.
    There are many different types of art. Lambiel, Takahashi or Buttle have almost the same style, Plushenko's style is different but he is also very entertaining. Besides none of them is an artist, they are all sportsmen.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    If plushenko is an incredible artist, I wonder if harlem shake is art as well. Many of his programs (especially after his comeback in 2009) are just crazy frenetic moves that could go along with any background music, with kisses, fist pumps, "sexy" stares at the judges, and some really weird moves (hand on his opened mouth in 2010 LP, hips shaking out of context, etc). He has amazing personality, presence and charisma, but art on ice? I wouldn't go that far, especially after his comeback. He had some good programs before, like tribute to nijinsky, but most of his choreos are just...cheesy.

    Don't hate me for the comment, I really respect Plushenko and I think he is a superman, but calling Plushenko an artist on ice is a little disrespectful to skaters like Lambiel, Takahashi and Buttle. He is more like a great entertainer and performer, in my humble opinion.
    I don't hate you. The artistry skating is very subjective. For me Buttle's and Lambiel's artistry don't affecte me, not to mention Abbot or Chan. I love Plushy's passion, expressivity. And Plushy is diverse. If you know his all programs I'm sure you won't say he isn't artistry. Maybe his Tango Amore program in 2010 wasn't the greatest ( isn't a great program, but he can perform it extremly!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5lAZtvnkak in China) , but in last year he had a good program.
    But what is art? When the skater dies on ice? I think, no. Do you remember his Asissay, Sex Bomb, Crazy Bird, Je suis malade, Sharmanka( barrel organ) etc. ex programs? He can shows us every emotions. He has own style, powerful skating, he has incredibly energy when he skates, and manly, but artistry. You can decide, like or not, and this is what I can understand easily. There are people don't like his style, this doesn't mean that is not artistry.

    You know, I never heard that he isn't artistry before Vancouver. That wasn't question. I think that was a part of attack against Plushy.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    Judging from his ID you really do not need to argue with him on this. And if he found nothing worth watching except jumps from Plushenko's programs, I doubt you can convince him to do otherwise. Just leave him in peace with his opinion.
    Maybe you are right.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    The sad truth is Plushenko himself is not man enough to attend the London Worlds
    Is it a silly joke or someone took the long vacation in the no-Internet land? Plu got his intervertebral disc replaced. How was anyone supposed to skate at Worlds after the operation I wonder. This repetitive playing Zhurankov is getting boring.
    bad mouthing a fellow competitor is considered very poor sportsmanship. Unfortunately, Plushenko has a history of trash talking other competitors,
    Then GS is a commuity of bad mouthing trash talking fellows with vey poor sportsmanship. Because I really lost the account on how many threads on Chan's win in London were in the Edge only, not mentioning competition subforums.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    It's true that Plushenko could fall on every 3A and quad attempt and still win Russian nationals,
    Not all Nationals are like Canadian Nationals. And not all National champions are like a Canadian Nationals champion. Plu didn't fall on every 3A or quad attempt. Actually he didn't fall at all. So where the "It's true" assumption comes from?

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Not all Nationals are like Canadian Nationals. And not all National champions are like a Canadian Nationals champion. Plu didn't fall on every 3A or quad attempt. Actually he didn't fall at all. So where the "It's true" assumption comes from?
    It comes from the idea that the Russian men's field is weak and maybe it is possible that plushenko could beat menshov and voronov with some falls. Though voronov did come pretty close to bbeating plushenko in 2013 before his euro collapse so maybe it's not true but if plushenko fell a lot but wracked up rotation points with his pcs he might be able to win with a 3 fall skate?

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Not all Nationals are like Canadian Nationals. And not all National champions are like a Canadian Nationals champion. Plu didn't fall on every 3A or quad attempt. Actually he didn't fall at all. So where the "It's true" assumption comes from?

    I was being hypothetical. IF Plushenko fell on the quad and two 3A's in his FS, he would lose 12 points (-3's, and -1 fall deduction x 3 jumps). His components score was 10 points ahead of Voronov in the FS and 5 points ahead in the SP. So theoretically, with a 15 point PCS advantage over Voronov (who skated clean, and was his nearest competitor), he could have afforded 3 falls, points-wise. (And of course you can say the same about other Nationals, such as Canadians, where there is one dominant skater. I'm sure Javier Fernandez also has the same advantage.) And obviously at this year's Nationals, given how Reynolds skated, had Chan had a fall in his SP and 2 falls in his FS it would have been close.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    If plushenko is an incredible artist, I wonder if harlem shake is art as well. Many of his programs (especially after his comeback in 2009) are just crazy frenetic moves that could go along with any background music, with kisses, fist pumps, "sexy" stares at the judges, and some really weird moves (hand on his opened mouth in 2010 LP, hips shaking out of context, etc). He has amazing personality, presence and charisma, but art on ice? I wouldn't go that far, especially after his comeback. He had some good programs before, like tribute to nijinsky, but most of his choreos are just...cheesy.

    Don't hate me for the comment, I really respect Plushenko and I think he is a superman, but calling Plushenko an artist on ice is a little disrespectful to skaters like Lambiel, Takahashi and Buttle. He is more like a great entertainer and performer, in my humble opinion.
    This. When Plushenko lands his jumps, his programs are very impressive and entertaining. I love a great technician and what I take away from his programs is not the content, but the remarkable jumping and consistency. He has great energy and charisma, but to call him an "artist" is, as you said, kind of an insult to actual artists like Takahashi, Lambiel and Buttle. Any time a skater got together similar consistency (Joubert at Euros, Sandhu at GPF, Lysacek in Vancouver) they would win because they are artistically superior. When they skated at their best, Yagudin would consistently beat him because he is artistically a better skater, and one of the only ones able to match Plushenko's technical ability at the time they skated.

    And just because my ID says Canadian isn't a reason to think I'm just criticizing him due to my nationality. I've criticized Chan and Buttle in the past for wins from technically ho-hum performances. I've also lauded Plushenko's technical ability and consistency.

  12. #177
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    It is wrong to bring Sandhu into this because he won because plushenko did too many combos.

    The continued belief that none of plushenkos wins had anything to do with being talented in artistry in any way is just too much nonsense to Continue to engage with!! Like in 2004 he won worlds because of his artistic magnificence. He had technical errors there.

  13. #178
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    If we are talking about a true artist Chan is not one either to the level of people like Takahashi, Lambiel, or even Yagudin. The emotions he brings to his skating performances, his ability to interpret the nuances of any type of music, his performance abilities, his stage presence, dont even come in the same league as those, no matter how many times the judges give him 10s in PE and IN even with 5 or 6 falls to ensure his 5 or 6 fall "must win no matter what" cushion. So if Plushenko isnt really an artist, the same could be said about Chan, but with a record of falls and mistakes that makes Lambiel look like an uber consistent jumper, her cant even be called a technical master, nor a master competitor, which leaves him with what exactly? Skating skills, so essentialy a male Yuka Sato with weaker spins, a less pleasent personality, less consistent jumps, and 100 times more popularity with the judges. Atleast Plushenko is a technical master and master competitor.

  14. #179
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    5 or 6 falls? When did Chan get five or six falls and get 10s in PE and IN? We get it that you hate Chan, but if you're going to bash him, at least make accurate statements. Hey, why not go all out on the hyperbole and say 10 falls!

    Takahashi is the only one of those I would consider a complete artist more than Chan. And when Takahashi skates well (not that he's a very consistent skater himself) he'll get higher PCS marks.

    And seriously... weak spins?! Chan has some of the strongest spins of the men's field. Certainly stronger than Takahashi.

    As fun as it is watching people bash Chan, he has 5 world medals (including 3 titles), 2 GPF wins, and the World record score. I agree that he's been overscored in the past, and isn't the most consistent skater (not that I can name many of today's top skaters who are), but to try to tear him down to being just a ho-hum skater is jealousy at its best, and downright delusion at its worst.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    It is wrong to bring Sandhu into this because he won because plushenko did too many combos.

    The continued belief that none of plushenkos wins had anything to do with being talented in artistry in any way is just too much nonsense to Continue to engage with!! Like in 2004 he won worlds because of his artistic magnificence. He had technical errors there.


    Sandu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW4wjEV_q9w standing ovation
    Plushy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GOtcRy6Hcg standing ovation

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