03-29-2013, 03:12 PM
That was not the point I was trying to make. I was saying that Plushenko's consistency was unrivalled, so only an artistic skater could come close to beating him (or even beat him in the case of Sandhu and Yagudin).
Originally Posted by gmyers
I'm also not saying that Plushenko isn't artistic. He has good speed and ice presence. But his jump consistency, not content, is what translates to higher artistic marks. You strip away all the jumps and footwork sequences (for which he seems to save his energy, instead of transitions and choreography between jumps), then you're left with not much. I mean, he's been trained to do that under 6.0. It doesn't matter how you skate the rest of the program if you can win by landing every jump so why invest the time to do inbetween stuff? And with no skater like Yagudin bringing the same technical game, he can afford to just make it about the jumps and elements. Obviously, against Yagudin, he would often lose because he's not a predominantly artistic skater and he's competing against somebody executing the same jumps with similar consistency.
Also, at the 2004 Worlds, Plushenko didn't win on the basis of his artistry, seeing as how he was still scored over Joubert and Lindemann in the technical elements (mostly 5.9's for TE). He was best on the day though, so of course he did get great artistic scores too.
03-29-2013, 04:09 PM
You are saying plushenko isn't artistic. You are saying his artistic scores come from his jumps! You are saying there is nothing like choreo or in between jumps but there is!!! You just don't agree that it is choreo or in. You are saying it's crap but it is ch and in!! I may be blending anti plushenko pOsts here but using hands and your face and hips and skates like plushenko did in 2010 with kind of running in place is all ch and in and all apart of the ch! And in 6.0 and najinski he did tons of stuff between jumps in a ch and in type way but you say all the artistic marks and pcs come from jumps or arms during step sequences. There is just no way to argue he did not not deserve 0.0 in presentation and 0 in pcs and how his 6.0 and 8 and 9 all comes from jumps. This is too high of a mountain to climb because what he believes is ch and in and what judges gave him 6.0 and 8's or 9's for cannot be justified other than as a reward for jumps to you.
03-29-2013, 04:12 PM
Bona Fide Member
You are wrong: Yagudin never been Russian Champion!!, Kulik and after Plush always beat him, despite the fact Plushy almost 3 years younger than Yagudin. So when Yagudin retirted, Plushy was only 19. !!! It not was Plushy's peak time. Of course, Yag beat Plushy when Plu was 15-16( he was second in WCH) in international competitions. But in 2000 (Plu was 17) beat Yagudin in ECH ( Plushy's points and Yag's reaction http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byMrwtOhPcc clearly won! every judges put him on the first place ), but lost in WCH( he was 4th), because he fell!!! Plush got higher marks for his presentation like Yagudin, when they were 15-16-17 yo...I'm sure you can't believe it, but this is true...check it
Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy
1997 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrwXutDBuuk Yag's first WCH, he was 17 and was 3th
1998 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7h-utC6kPY Plu's first WCH, he was 15 and was 3th
look at their scores
03-30-2013, 12:56 AM
What a trash , keep talking, get real please.
Originally Posted by wallylutz
It must be a joke Laysachek or Chan artistick skaters, those are don`t have anything natural, simple
On the other hand, Denis Ten even when he was very young, one could see huge artistic talent! Now he is real! nothing close to Chan, never to artificial Laysachek!
It is easy to put Denis Ten and Plushenko on the same legue of born talent, but not Chan not even mention Laysacheck, who both are artificial well trained judges "picks"
People can talk about Plushenko as much trash as they want, but it wont change anything, because fundamentals are set by nature! Watch videos from Euro 2012 in Shefield, that is prove!
Writing all this trash about Plushenko doesnt change, that HE IS`REAL in Sichi 2014 fighting for GOLD!
03-30-2013, 11:38 AM
03-30-2013, 05:10 PM
More than Chan is at stake here. Yes, Chan is perhaps the best skater. And yes, he has won 3 World Titles. But some of us who are not Chan haters (I am from Toronto and he is one of my favorite skaters) really have a problem with his having won the worlds in London (and in Nice). One is getting the impression that how he skates doesn't matter and how good the other skaters skate doesn't matter either. Why train? Why compete? Why watch it? If this happens again, only at the Olympics, it is going to set skating back as far as the Salt Lake City skating scandal did. For the sake of the sport, everyone who is honest has to see that there is a problem and that it is a big one. Plushenko was over the top in his comments about Skate Canada and ISF, but there is definitely something that needs to be fixed.
Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy
03-31-2013, 05:03 AM
03-31-2013, 07:46 AM
Oh, man, will you look at those guys? Astonishing. (Forgive me for this language geek moment, by the way: It's 3rd. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and then all the numbers after that take a th: 4th, 5th, etc. I can't offer any skating expertise as you all can, so copyediting is my sole contribution to the thread.)
Originally Posted by plushyfan
I don't see how any of these amazing skaters suffers in comparison with the others. Russia contributed three formidable skaters one after the other with Kulik, Yagudin, and Plushenko. Interestingly all of them are still skating, though Yagudin is limited by his hip problems. And Kulik's jumps are still textbook after fifteen years. Pretty impressive. They've all contributed mightily to skating, both as sport and as art.
Thanks for sharing these great videos.
03-31-2013, 09:11 AM
The land of SnuggleBat and Cuddlepie