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Thread: Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    So you think that the more there is youtube viewers, the more program has artistry and content? In that case Plushenko's Sex Bomb would have the greatest artistry with almost 1 million viewers.
    Probably it has the greatest artistry because it is one of the most entertaining programs in FS.

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    That is a technically superb performance, but it's not an artistically superb performance. Most of the choreographic is basic skating with two-footed skating, simple one-foot glides, 3-turns and mohawks and pumping counter-clockwise around the rink. The only time he exhibits footwork is, well, during his footwork. As for expression, he has moments of expression but not while he's actually skating -- only while he's at standstills. A clean, well-performed skate from one of the favourites, especially if they skate last, will often get 6.0's regardless of how good the actual program content is.

    I don't take away from how technically good that performance was (save for the spins which were a bit sloppy and travelling), but for comparison, Plushenko's FS at the beginning of last year was light years ahead of his Nijinsky program in terms of artistry and content.
    The only thing I see you analysing here is more technical stuff. No bearing on the artistry.

    I suppose you would rather see a skater zamboni-ing the ice with his backside for four and a half minutes while throwing the kitchen sink in and being completely disconnected from the music? Because that's not artistry to me.

    Choreography is not artistry.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post
    So you think that the more there is youtube viewers, the more program has artistry and content? In that case Plushenko's Sex Bomb would have the greatest artistry with almost 1 million viewers.
    Are you a lawyer? They can misinterpret the sentences. I think you clearly understood what I wanted to say... The people watch those videos, because they like them, because those are artistry and magic. Read the comments! My favorite, that was a futured comment: The God is exist, he is the proof...

    And, yes if you mentioned, the Sex Bomb program is also a kind of art. Parody is the genre's name. (And if you want to be exact the Sex Bomb program videos had cca 4 million viewers, among in my favorite videos was a video, it had more than 2 million viewers. Now that is not exist, but the other Sex Bomb videos have more than 2 million)

    or this: Do you think, this is not artistry because nobody doesn't die on ice? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr7HWxzjv54 nobody can match him..

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    I suppose you think a skater methodically railing off a series of jumps and then stopping to have a melodramatic moment is artistry, then?

    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Choreography is not artistry.
    Oh geez. Sorry, but when you make statements like that, I can't take you seriously.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I suppose you think a skater methodically railing off a series of jumps and then stopping to have a melodramatic moment is artistry, then?

    Oh geez. Sorry, but when you make statements like that, I can't take you seriously.
    What was wrong with my statement? Choreography is NOT artistry. How the skater uses that choreography is artistry. There is a huge difference between Patrick Chan throwing the kitchen sink into his programs and being totally cold fish and disconnected, and a skater who does a program that, perhaps, is not as technically "difficult", but invokes feelings and emotions, as Plushenko's Nijinsky does.

    There are few skaters under the new system who can do both effectively. Jason Brown is one of them - and I am unashamed to admit I'm a huge fan. His Liebestraume at JWC made me cry. He totally suckered me in - and he had very intricate choreography. But not every skater could have done that program and I don't mean technically. Artur Gachinski's "Bolt" was not exactly what you'd call stacked with transitions and connecting movements - but it makes me laugh, it makes me clap along with it, it brings out the fun elements in the music and he expresses them beautifully.

    The example of Plushenko's Nijinsky given - I haven't looked but I suspect it's the eleven 6.0 RN one, yes? - is not the best example. At that point in the season the program had been watered down almost beyond recognition because Plushenko was in excrutiating pain. The best versions of Nijinsky to watch are the ones from TEB that season, and also (and I will find the link when I have time) the original version that he performed in a show prior to the season's commencement.

    PS: You expect me to take a poster who openly calls themselves "CanadianSkaterGuy" seriously?

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I suppose you think a skater methodically railing off a series of jumps and then stopping to have a melodramatic moment is artistry, then?



    Oh geez. Sorry, but when you make statements like that, I can't take you seriously.
    I don't want revenge, but for me Chan isn't artistry. No emotion, no passion, just beautiful slipping on the ice. Sorry. One question: If Patrick is so amazing, so artistic, so so so best, why people don't like to watch his videos on Youtube?.....

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post

    The example of Plushenko's Nijinsky given - I haven't looked but I suspect it's the eleven 6.0 RN one, yes? - is not the best example. At that point in the season the program had been watered down almost beyond recognition because Plushenko was in excrutiating pain. The best versions of Nijinsky to watch are the ones from TEB that season, and also (and I will find the link when I have time) the original version that he performed in a show prior to the season's commencement.

    PS: You expect me to take a poster who openly calls themselves "CanadianSkaterGuy" seriously?
    this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbjJufbHXpE on TEB with ABC commentary!!!!
    and this? on Artur Dmitriev show http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_M569vny-M

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by bestskate8 View Post
    This is better version with english subtitles Kirkorov is also fantastic, fantastic voice, fantastic song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXjjwMvOguM

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Yes that's true. For example Mishin, he really believes that. He is an engineer and professor at the University of St. Petersburg but he thinks.

    Rudolf Zagainov, an infamous sports psychologist. His wife an Olympic champion cyclist killed herself, and the police launched an investigation, the basic version - incitement to suicide"
    http://www.kp.ru/daily/23929/69653/
    Hasn't Makarova worked with him since that?

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I suppose you think a skater methodically railing off a series of jumps and then stopping to have a melodramatic moment is artistry, then?



    Oh geez. Sorry, but when you make statements like that, I can't take you seriously.
    I agree with Karne. Choreography does not belong to the skater, except for the skaters that are choreographing their own programs, you're basically suggesting that artistry can be bought, which doesn't make sense at all. What about a singer with nice songs but terrible voice, how artistic is he? But a singer with nice voice and awful songs? Well....at least you can hope that one day he'll get a better composer.

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Hasn't Makarova worked with him since that?
    Yes. He is. In 2011 Mishin didn't want to go a competition, because he heard, Makarova and Zagainov will be there together. So probably Zagainov wasn't guilty.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    I don't want revenge, but for me Chan isn't artistry. No emotion, no passion, just beautiful slipping on the ice. Sorry. One question: If Patrick is so amazing, so artistic, so so so best, why people don't like to watch his videos on Youtube?..... So many uneducated, blind people who can't see the real greatness....
    Patrick is not as artistic as Jeremy Abbott. But he is more artistic than many top skaters including Plushenko ( I don't want revenge, either). Has Plushenko ever been compared with John Curry - the legendary British artistic skater who combined ballet and modern dance with figure skating? Well, Patrick had, by one of the euro sport commentator. Patrick was said to have a bit touch of John Curry but much more athletic. And you call that "isn't artistry"?

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Patrick is not as artistic as Jeremy Abbott. But he is more artistic than many top skaters including Plushenko ( I don't want revenge, either). Has Plushenko ever been compared with John Curry - the legendary British artistic skater who combined ballet and modern dance with figure skating? Well, Patrick had, by one of the euro sport commentator. Patrick was said a bit touch of John Curry but much more athletic. And you call that "isn't artistry"?
    Yes, I do. And I ask again: If Patrick is so amazing, so artistic, so so so best, why people don't like to watch his videos on Youtube?

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Yes, I do.
    Well, then I have no doubt that you are one of those people that you refered to. But beware, the judges don't think like you do.

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Patrick is not as artistic as Jeremy Abbott. But he is more artistic than many top skaters including Plushenko ( I don't want revenge, either). Has Plushenko ever been compared with John Curry - the legendary British artistic skater who combined ballet and modern dance with figure skating? Well, Patrick had, by one of the euro sport commentator. Patrick was said to have a bit touch of John Curry but much more athletic. And you call that "isn't artistry"?
    No, Plushenko has never been compared to John Curry (at least I have never heard of that). He was referred as Baryshnikov on ice once in an Italian article, and praised for his Nijinsky program as "Nijinsky would be proud of that" (something like that) though.

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