Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title | Page 22 | Golden Skate

Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title

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yaya124

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
I never said his program is "empty". He's consistent, and his difficulty/consistency lends itself to a great performance. I'm saying that he doesn't have expression/difficult choreography consistently throughout his program. Like I said, he goes into jump mode, and when he executes that, he starts being expressive, until he has to go into jump mode again.

I think his injury and bombed SP at Euros was indicative that his body is no longer what it used to be. I never counted him out even in 2010 when he hadn't been competitive for years, because he had yet to show weakness in his skating and jumping. Due to injury, he has shown weakness in his skating... which is hard to overcome, let alone actually increase your difficulty following surgery by having 2 quads. This isn't something like the mental focus errors Chan has been having in his poor recent competitions (we all know that he can do a 2A/3Z/combo spin, same with Yuzuru who had a bad Worlds with freak errors and like Chan has fallen on a spin this season too). These can be overcome a lot easier than the physical burden of an injury and how that limits your ability. I have no question that Plushenko is mentally as tough and determined as he ever was, but we now have evidence that his body simply might not allow him to be a contender.

For your first argument, the "switching mode" maybe existing in your eyes, for many people, they are perfectly OK. Probably his expressive part is too intensive so by contrast, certain moments seems less expressive. But that is still better than Chan's performance IMO since it is just plain blank.

As I said, if you use what you argue now to start your argument of not be able to compete with multiple quads with other guys, maybe your argument might sound less arrogant and acceptable. Too late for that since your tone is set.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Maybe his set up for quad is his secret for successfully landing it. It certainly creates a drama at the beginning of the program. But I sometimes envy the lose posture of Joubert when going for the quad, it looks cool.
Can someone send me the Mercendez advertisment on pm?:popcorn:Or any other if he has done recently?
 
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yaya124

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Maybe his set up for quad is his secret for successfully landing it. It certainly creates a drama at the beginning of the program. But I sometimes envy the lose posture of Joubert when going for the quad, it looks cool.
Can someone send me the Mercendez advertisment on pm?:popcorn:Or any other if he has done recently?

For the Mercedez ads, only pictures of shooting (http://evgeni-plushenko.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11&start=2230#p78026), probably not released yet.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Maybe his set up for quad is his secret for successfully landing it.

Thank you! If skaters would pay attention to what they are doing out there, instead of trying to dance the jitterbug when they should be preparing their quad, they could all be Plushenkos. ;)
 

lilywang

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Maybe his set up for quad is his secret for successfully landing it.

Good point. :thumbsup:

What is the point of transitions leading up to a jump when the the jump itself is a complete failure? Nowadays I find it really hard to convince my friends to watch a figure skating competition, all they do is screaming Ouch! with all those falls.

And speaking of artistry, can you imagine enjoying a ballet with dancers falling all over the place?
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
There are no transitions in Chan's skating before the quad and 3A. Actually Plushenko has more transitions before those jumps. If Plushenko has jump mode before first three dificult jumps, then Chan skates through whole program with jump mode and zero facial emotions.
If Plushenko needs 2 quads, according to someone here, then Chan needs 3 quads and two 3A to beat Plushenko with 2 quads. Assuming Plushenko will be 100%)))

Why no one said Chan needs second 3A in LP and 4-3-3
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Mountain, molehill. Plushenko congratulated Denis Ten for a great performance and said, hey man, you shoulda won. He said, man, there's something wrong when a guy can fall four times and win the world championship.

That's it.

Exactly!

But some people trying "to suck out something from finger"
Chan's pr machine in full power trying to picture Chan is better skater then Plushenko with THREE Olympic medals, because he has more meaningless transitions and "good" choreography so he can't execute the program clean.

Speechless:popcorn:
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Exactly!

But some people trying "to suck out something from finger"
Chan's pr machine in full power trying to picture Chan is better skater then Plushenko with THREE Olympic medals, because he has more meaningless transitions and "good" choreography so he can't execute the program clean.

Speechless:popcorn:

Exactly.:thumbsup: I hate the too many transitions, those are make me nervous, and I also hate the new kind of footwork.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Well clearly you have time on your hands to respond to me and follow it up with your own trolling... I mean, Plu has a Benz? What the heck does that have to do with anything?
I always have time for trolling trolls, which is not the same as feeding them, mind. Because no matter how incredibly stupid things they say (like the one that having a Benz has nothing to do with anything :laugh:), sooner or later all my attempts to educate them start working and they finally speak some shadow of sense:
Figure skating isn't even close to as popular in Canada as it is in Japan and Russia
So, basically you are saying that all pathetic tricks with second OGM in SLC and miserable cheating with Chan score ended up with one and the same result- figure skating there is still in the poo. And no hopes for better. The only thing that puzzles me is when those folks finally realize that NOTHING will change until cheating with score takes place. None of your fake champions are rich, and being Benz-rich for an athlete does mean smth.: success and recognition by public. Your fake champions failed to convince fans that they are true champs and failed to attract new fans to fs world. Which basically makes them be losers. The point is no one cares that they are losers. What people do care is that cheating with score via CoP destroys sport INTERNATIONALLY, not particularly in Canada or NA only. I am sure Plu knows every well that Chan will never be on the same level of celebrity as Plu already is. But the whole career of PLu was related with this sport. I am more than sure he will continue working with fs after retirement. Of course in terms of business he is not interested in declining popularity of fs. That's why he had to speak out to protect the credibility of this sport. At least he tried.

The reason I use "likely" and "probably" is to imply that I'm predicting something. I use "fact" to describe certainties. Like, FACT: Plushenko has one quad in his program (he hasn't had more than one since well before the last Olympics... not to mention I said it in the context of he would need to get a 2nd quad, so maybe read the rest of the post next time?)... just like FACT: Chan/Hanyu have 2 quads (but might do 3 in Sochi, who knows!). And based on most recent results, sure Chan has fallen. But by that logic, we can assume Plushenko will swiffer the ice with his butt just like he did at Euros and screw up two major jumping passes, and won't even attempt a quad in the SP, and withdraws before the LP, right?
Your crystal ball or whatever voodoo you use for your preditions is surely out of date. People already answered you here to enlighten you regarding the facts that are not aware of, so no need for me to repeat them. ... Just like FACT: Chan have multiple falls. What do you mean by "based on most recent results"? When did you start watching fs competitions? Obviously just recently. Chan has been falling around for his entire career.
By bringing Euros, you're just grabbing at straws to bash Plu, aren't you, when you clearly have a giat chip on your shoulder for Plu? Or, wait. It must be again your plain ignorance- "forgot" about spinal disc and injury. Or maybe never knew.:rolleye:
I agree with the mods, you're tiresome and and bring nothing to the table
I used the search button and found nothing about mods' talking me being "tiresome" and "bring nothing to the table." The burden of proof is on the person making claims. If you have no evidence, then you own mods the apology for slandering them. Techinically speaking. :biggrin: In fact since you failed to prove your argument, you bring mods on the table as your backup. Too childish. Yawn.
It's rather pointless bantering with you.
It's always like that. They promise you, but they are back the same instant:
Then what would you call Verner winning Europeans (and getting silver/bronze two other years)?
:popcorn:
Chan's pr machine in full power trying to picture Chan is better skater then Plushenko with THREE Olympic medals, because he has more meaningless transitions and "good" choreography so he can't execute the program clean.
PR machine itself already admitted that tricks with score are not working- the sport popularity is not available at the moment in Canada. The more I read the stuff the more I am getting convinced that all this is due to plain jealousy: ”if I cannot be as popular as your guys in your countries, with a benz and stuff, then I at least can steal your medals and sleep well full of satisfaction.” Pathetic.


Too many meaningless transitions is a way to hide the lack of true artistism I think.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
What I don’t enjoy about these discussions is when it starts to drift away from skating and turn in the direction of personal animosity. Patrick Chan may be a convenient symbol for what we perceive as flaws in the current judging system. He did not set off a bomb at the Boston Marathon.
 

SGrand

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
What I don’t enjoy about these discussions is when it starts to drift away from skating and turn in the direction of personal animosity. Patrick Chan may be a convenient symbol for what we perceive as flaws in the current judging system. He did not set off a bomb at the Boston Marathon.

👍
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
There are no transitions in Chan's skating before the quad and 3A. Actually Plushenko has more transitions before those jumps. If Plushenko has jump mode before first three dificult jumps, then Chan skates through whole program with jump mode and zero facial emotions.
If Plushenko needs 2 quads, according to someone here, then Chan needs 3 quads and two 3A to beat Plushenko with 2 quads. Assuming Plushenko will be 100%)))

Why no one said Chan needs second 3A in LP and 4-3-3

It's absolutely delusional to say Chan has less transitions into his quads or 3A, particularly comparing it to Plushenko. Also the points people are making about him setting up drama as a reason for practically zero choreography and simply stroking towards his quad to start his programs is even more ridiculous. If people are actually lauding him a lack of content and playing it off as purposeful or beneficial to his program (when its so obviously the opposite) then I put you in the same category as those who argue that at least Carolina's falls went with the music.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Exactly!

But some people trying "to suck out something from finger"
Chan's pr machine in full power trying to picture Chan is better skater then Plushenko with THREE Olympic medals, because he has more meaningless transitions and "good" choreography so he can't execute the program clean.

Speechless:popcorn:

Plushenko is the best skater ever if you go by his jumping ability, consistency, theatrics, and accolades (and Mercedes Benz sponsorships, apparently). He is far better than Chan at jumping consistency but he's also better than arguably every skater there ever was. But he has never had the actual choreography, finesse, originality and skating quality of a Lambiel, Buttle, Chan, Takahashi, Kwan, etc.
 

yaya124

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Plushenko is the best skater ever if you go by his jumping ability, consistency, theatrics, and accolades (and Mercedes Benz sponsorships, apparently). He is far better than Chan at jumping consistency but he's also better than arguably every skater there ever was. But he has never had the actual choreography, finesse, originality and skating quality of a Lambiel, Buttle, Chan, Takahashi, Kwan, etc.

:popcorn:
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Plushenko is the best skater ever if you go by his jumping ability, consistency, theatrics, and accolades (and Mercedes Benz sponsorships, apparently). He is far better than Chan at jumping consistency but he's also better than arguably every skater there ever was. But he has never had the actual choreography, finesse, originality and skating quality of a Lambiel, Buttle, Chan, Takahashi, Kwan, etc.

Pure black pr propaganda:slink:

At Euro 2012 in England, arena was FULL when Plushenko was skating, british people wanted to witness Plushenko's greatness life. It was amaizing to hear british people wisperring about him and eager to see him skate. They brought russian flags, they gave him standing ovation.
Now you are trying to tell me people are stupid and came to see someone without things you discribe.:laugh:
Plushenko, head and shoulders above everyone you mention in every department, just accept the facts and watch him skate:biggrin:

at 2:00 min watch him before 3a-3t:p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBJtNXvyWbg
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Pure black pr propaganda

At Euro 2012 in England, arena was FULL when Plushenko was skating, british people wanted to witness Plushenko's greatness life. It was amaizing to hear british people wisperring about him and eager to see him skate. They brought russian flags, they gave him standing ovation.
Now you are trying to tell me people are stupid and came to see someone without things you discribe.
Plushenko, head and shoulders above everyone you mention in every department, just accept the facts and watch him skate:biggrin:

at 2:00 min watch him before 3a-3t:p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBJtNXvyWbg

Yes, they love Plushy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjMYWoitpws -We love Plushenko!- two english girls

Sinead Kerr after Sheffield
……
The main event this year – if the crowd was anything to go by – was the Men’s. The arena was packed and the audience was excited, mainly, I think, because of the return of Olympic gold medallist and twice silver medallist, Evgeni Plushenko, who – as ever – didn’t disappoint.
We have done many shows with Evgeni and there is no doubt that he is a star in the skating world. He has a presence which is hard to define and almost impossible to imitate – as his training partner, runner up Artur Gachinski, can attest to.
Artur skated cleanly and landed more quads than Evgeni, tried his best to skated like him and in some ways is more able in the transition steps. Yet, somehow, when he finished, he was met with good applause rather than the impromptu standing ovation and wild enthusiasm following Plushenko. Many people questioned Evgeni’s comeback, but I think he proved here in Sheffield that he is still one of the best competitors ever in the sport and certainly a big draw. He is also a charmer, praising the organization and atmosphere of the event in his interview following the competition.

After Torino Plushy gained a lot of fans in G-Britain. Victoria Beckham wanted, that Plushy teach to skate her sons , if I right remember she wanted to pay 1000 Pounds :eek: per hour. But Plushy did not undertake it.. Also after Torino organized a Plushy's tour to England, but was canceled it, because Plushy was the host of a great TV show, Russia and Ukraine competed against each other.

____________________

Ok Senorita! I started: Plushy has more 6.0 presentation marks, like Michelle...:yes:
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Plushenko is the best skater ever if you go by his jumping ability, consistency, theatrics, and accolades (and Mercedes Benz sponsorships, apparently). He is far better than Chan at jumping consistency but he's also better than arguably every skater there ever was. But he has never had the actual choreography, finesse, originality and skating quality of a Lambiel, Buttle, Chan, Takahashi, Kwan, etc.

What is finesse or originality? What do you think?
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
What is finesse or originality? What do you think?

Originality is doing choreography that hasn't been done before, doing interesting edge work, or body movements -- and bringing it to competition, not just exhibitions. I hardly think hip thrusts falls in the category of originality. Buttle was particularly great at incorporating originality in his choreography, and Chan has done it to some extent. Takahashi is great at creating originality but also injecting emotion into it.

Finesse means smoothness, delicacy and subtlety, and performing that with abandon or restraint (highs and lows) at appropriate times. It involves fluidity and using your whole body in a graceful way with ease. Skaters like Abbott, Kostner, Chan and Buttle are great at incorporating subtle movements along with big, sweeping movements. Most of Plushenko's choreography is "big" and "theatrical" - which is simply his style - though it has become more varied since the Olympics - particularly his hand movements. Finesse involves finishing your movements -- even simple things like ending your programs with a definite finishing pose (I, for one, enjoyed Plushenko's 2006 LP until the end with that lazy bow... like the EuroSport guys, I hate fist pumps or over-the-top early celebrating in programs like Ten's 2013 Worlds FS or Plushenko's 2012 Euro LP... that should be saved for after the end of the program ).
 
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