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Thread: Plushenko: Chan Does Not Deserve World Title

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    This is his opinion, he is a sincere man. Always.

    Johnny Weir's tweet:

    This judging is ridiculous and the only reason people buy it is because it's in North America. Imagine the outcry if it were Russia+Plush!?
    As usual Johnny talking through his ***. By saying North American he's saying that here in the US people are glad Chan won. Maybe Canada is happy but here in the US we think Ten got hosed and Chan should have lost.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    That happened rightfully because of Plushenko´s own thoughtless remarks about his transitions. Plushenko was no victim, he caused it all himself.
    Well, if I remembered correctly, Patrick once said that he didn't deserve to win (around 2009 or 2010). Don't you think the judges had to send 60 emails to co-workers to not give high score the skater who said he did not deserve to win? Why did nobody do that, but did it only for Plushenko...

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evgenia View Post
    Well, if I remembered correctly, Patrick once said that he didn't deserve to win. Don't you think the judges had to send 60 emails to their co-workers to not give high score him? Why did nobody do that, but did it for Plushenko?
    I thought you were arguing all the way that Plushenko is better. So in the end, the most we can say is - Plushenko is no difference than Patrick Chan. Even worse. Plushenko is taking the revenge now.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    No, Plushenko, you were right.
    Why are you addressing Plushenko here on Golden Skate? Unlike Chan he doesn't hide behind the media. He spoke his mind openly on his twitter. Go there and tell him what you are saying right now straight to his face. Unless you have no balls to do, that's another story.

  5. #65
    Custom Title spikydurian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Unless you have no balls to do, that's another story.
    The female gender has balls? Ew Bluebonnet, what did you do to yourself?

  6. #66
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    let`s talk, Don't you think that you have stepped on other people's toes?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    The female gender has balls? Ew Bluebonnet, what did you do to yourself?
    How am I supposed to know that you or someone else is a female? Why do even suggest that BB could have done something to his/herself?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    let`s talk, Don't you think that you have stepped on other people's toes?
    By doing what exactly? By offering you to say the things you are saying about Plushenko straight to his face on the twitter? Or by "other people" you mean Plushenko? Than you are probably right.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    By doing what exactly? By offering you to say the things you are saying about Plushenko straight to his face on the twitter? Or by "other people" you mean Plushenko? Than you are probably right.
    Thanks! But what I do and how I do it is none of your business if you are not clear on that. This is my last post on your meaningless personal attack on me. What I want to say is this, "Get off my back!"

  9. #69
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    It's the judges

    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I think I agree with Plushenko, but Skate Canada didn't BUY Chan's medal like some posters are saying. If Skate Canada was able to manipulate the results, V/M also would have won, and D/R wouldn't have lost to a subpar S/S in pairs.
    I agree. It's the judges using the PCS to prop up the skaters they think should win over what they saw on the ice. There are all kinds of reasons for misuse of those points and I'm sure Federations influence them as well, but judges are also afraid to stand out - or have their own mark tossed - or just "place" the skaters. Those PCS marks are supposed to provide feedback to the skaters and help them and there's also plenty of criteria to help the judges better understand how to score each component - but no one pays attention and no one is ever called out for it. This is what will be the demise of figure skating if it's not fixed.

  10. #70
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    Wow, Plushenko certainly hasn't stopped being outspoken. To evolve Plushenko's prior rhetoric -- it's not World title unless you do 2 quads, and Ten only did one.

    While I agree for the casual viewer, Ten should have won (and likely would have won under 6.0), it's a different judging system. Ten and Chan were both overscored in PCS in both segments, but even if they scored 15 points less in PCS over the competition, the results would have been the same. Ten's SP score was monstrous. In the FS, he rightfully won by almost 5 points over Chan.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Wow, Plushenko certainly hasn't stopped being outspoken. To evolve Plushenko's prior rhetoric -- it's not World title unless you do 2 quads, and Ten only did one.
    .
    Don't put words in Plushenko's mouth. Twisting or simplifying other people's argument to make your own point is called "straw man fallacy", just you know.

    And if you actually watched the competition, Ten actually did 2 quads, one in SP and one in LP.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Wow, Plushenko certainly hasn't stopped being outspoken. To evolve Plushenko's prior rhetoric -- it's not World title unless you do 2 quads, and Ten only did one.

    While I agree for the casual viewer, Ten should have won (and likely would have won under 6.0), it's a different judging system. Ten and Chan were both overscored in PCS in both segments, but even if they scored 15 points less in PCS over the competition, the results would have been the same. Ten's SP score was monstrous. In the FS, he rightfully won by almost 5 points over Chan.
    I think there are many skaters that capable of reaching the 90 mark. Takahashi, Hanyu, Fernandez, Berzia, Amadio, but none of them skated clean so Ten SP score was fair. Its no where near overscored like Chan. Its not Chan faults what he won with the most sloppiest and number of mistakes in history of figure skating. The judges are to be blame for not scoring accordingly. When Chan is on, he deserved the mark he got, but when he is off, the judges are still not punishing enough. Other skaters who had similar mistakes are bing punish much harsher.

  13. #73
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amber68 View Post
    I disagree. Indeed Plushy's remarks were thoughtless but the campaign before Vancouver was much more than taking advantage of silly comments made by one of competitors.

    It really had all the elements of a textbook propaganda campaign:
    Demonizing the enemy - clips with Lenin's statues falling and Plushy presented as an evil commie
    Appeal to authority - Joe Inman, an official ISU judge, sends an e-mail to other official ISU judges, just before the competition, ref. how to score Plushenko's transitions. Accidentally this e-mail leaks to the press...Moreover at ISU seminars there are presented videos of Plushenko and his weak points are given as an example ( it is completely unethical to use a competitor as an example no matter who he/she is, but isn't it amazing that they chose Plushenko despite the fact that I am sure there were plenty of retired skaters who could be given as examples?)
    Tireless repetition of an idea - Plushenko & lack of transitions were repeated ad nauseum on all the media channels (including figure skating forums where some pople do post because they have an agenda)

    Yes. He was the commie-evil Russian..But this is shame on the North-American media. And I meet these things in Youtube's comments even today. The campaigne was very succesful.
    Mishin said about it:
    “As soon as Plushenko announced his return, the ISU distributed an instruction video on the subject ‘How Not to Skate!’ And imagine, Plushenko starred in it!" said Alexei Mishin smiling..."I think the Americanadian camp whose representatives do not possess a quadruple jump didn’t want Plushenko to become the Olympic champion and did all it could to prevent that.” "In Torino, he was regarded as a genius, who after Yagudin's exit had no equals left; in Vancouver, he was perceived as an unwelcome threat to be reduced to an average skater easily bested by any Tom, Dick and Harry."

    "After his retirement "men's figure skating was quietly deteriorating. If you can't fly - at least crawl prettily. Instead of the elements that a few rare individuals are able to conquer, the emphasis began to be placed on the better quality performance of what can be done by 500 men. A multitude of athletes, their coaches and sports officials had already made their plans for the upcoming Olympics. And then thunder struck - Plushenko has returned!"

    The image of Plushenko being a dull and inartistic one-trick pony was dismissed as shameless propaganda, inasmuch as prior to the 2010 Olympics he had received nothing but praise for his artistry. The image was believed to have been contrived in order to cast doubt on Plushenko's legendary status, thereby grooming the viewers to accept an unprecedented win by the American over the Russian known for his consistency to perform the toughest maneuver in figure skating. "When it comes to a quadruple jump- it is quite simple really. If no one except for the one Russian skater is able to perform it, you need to make believe that this jump does not exist at all.

    Can you imagine what Plushy felt in Vancouver? How much pressure was on him? So I can understand his every reactions.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen3000 View Post
    I think there are many skaters that capable of reaching the 90 mark. Takahashi, Hanyu, Fernandez, Berzia, Amadio, but none of them skated clean so Ten SP score was fair. Its no where near overscored like Chan. Its not Chan faults what he won with the most sloppiest and number of mistakes in history of figure skating. The judges are to be blame for not scoring accordingly. When Chan is on, he deserved the mark he got, but when he is off, the judges are still not punishing enough. Other skaters who had similar mistakes are bing punish much harsher.
    I disagree. You can tell by the GOE that the judges marked him down for his errors; the technical specialist also marked down his 3A as UR'ed, which was deserved but they could have let it slide like Kostner's UR'ed combo in her SP. The judges also gave higher GOE to many of Ten's elements over Chan's - particularly the ChSp which they could have easily marked Chan ahead if they showed favouritism, yet Chan got +2's for his and Ten got all but one +3's.

    If you want to take Denis Ten as an absolute skater, he was marked very generously PCS-wise at these worlds. Yes, he put in the best performances he's ever skated but 91 and 175 points for his SP and FS are gargantuan. His programs are good, but he lacks the edges and flow that the other skaters have. I'm saying this as a fan of his...

    As for Chan winning with the sloppiest mistakes, he also won with two quads in his FS, and a perfect SP, which are the reason he won. The negatives are glaring, but look at the bigger picture before you say it was the sloppiest program to win in the history of figure skating.

    Part of me thinks that people are more outraged that Chan wasn't toppled, and couldn't care less if it was by Denis Ten, they just wanted to see Chan lose. Everyone is exclaiming that Chan was overmarked and got such higher marks than Takahashi's program whereas nobody mentions that Ten also got the same SS and higher TR/PE/CH/IN as Takahashi (and higher than Hanyu/Fernandez). Ten also beat Chan in Performance/Execution, so it's not like the judges held him down. He received the second best PCS in his SP and FS, over guys who have much better programs. He was certainly rewarded for going clean, but that doesn't mean he deserves 8.86 for Choreography with a program like that. I'm all for skaters getting rewarded with good PCS for good performances... and I also dislike it when skaters who make errors win. But that's not to say I don't understand the result and what lead to it.

  15. #75
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    That happened rightfully because of Plushenko´s own thoughtless remarks about his transitions. Plushenko was no victim, he caused it all himself.
    Rightfully? I have videos on my pc where the daily show about Olympics in major channel were naming Plushenko with bold letters, Quadchenko and not in a good way. Thats a big difference than having no transitions. Which would have been funny if the commentator didnt point out that on the contrary their athlete had the whole packet.

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