Which THREE U.S. Ladies do you want to see at the Olympics next year? | Page 10 | Golden Skate

Which THREE U.S. Ladies do you want to see at the Olympics next year?

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Witts 88 Olympic and World titles were such a complete farce I just disregard them altogether. So really she has 3 World titles and 1 Olympic Gold as far as I am concerned.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
True. Katarina Witt has a better competitive record than Michelle: 2 OGM, 4 Worlds; 6 Europeans.

Much as I like and admire Katarina--her personality, her self-discipline, her consistency--I'd rather watch one program of Michelle's than all the award-winning programs Witt ever skated.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Gao, Edmunds, and Gold or Wagner

know that is highly unlikely as it would mean one of Gold or Wagner not making it, but I just love Gao and Edmunds.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
BTW, if Gold or Wagner is injured/unable to go, that's it, another spot opens up. Of course, that also means the extra spot will be lost anyway, so whomever it is better enjoy the heck out of it.

A petition is always possible in that case, but I'm not sure it would be successful (even if it is, she's gonna pull out anyway).
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Fantasy aside, would this Edmunds girl even be old enough for Sochi?

Yes, I do believe so. Her birthday is listed as May 18, 1998, so she will turn 15 before the July 1 cutoff.

Of course, QUALIFYING for the Olympics is a different matter entirely.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Gao, Edmunds, and Gold or Wagner

know that is highly unlikely as it would mean one of Gold or Wagner not making it, but I just love Gao and Edmunds.

in that case who would you want to make it more out of Wagner or Gold. Wagner since it might be her last shot at the Games, or Gold who is "probably" a better medal hope than Wagner for the U.S the way things look now.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Gao, Edmunds, and Gold or Wagner

know that is highly unlikely as it would mean one of Gold or Wagner not making it, but I just love Gao and Edmunds.

Edmunds has an inconsistent UR problem (she's very borderline on the second jump and so sometimes gets it and sometimes doesn't) so far AND she's a far likelier bet AFTER Sochi to make the World team (also this will be her first international Junior season...)
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
She was born May 1998? Damn, I feel old already :laugh:

oh my lord, what???? I was just getting used to Olympic competitors being born in the early 90s. Geez, by the NEXT cycle Olympians will have been born in the 2000s! How did that happen?
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
oh my lord, what???? I was just getting used to Olympic competitors being born in the early 90s. Geez, by the NEXT cycle Olympians will have been born in the 2000s! How did that happen?

Now, let's not get ahead of ourselves ;) I doubt that Edmunds, without any international JUNIOR experience, will spontaneously sprout wings, fly up the ranks, and qualify for the Olympics next year. As mskater93 said, she has technical weaknesses--edge calls on the 3F and a recurring UR problem that NEEDS to be fixed ASAP. She looked absolutely lovely in her flowing white FS costume at Junior Nationals, but she isn't the breakthrough star that Gracie Gold was, and she probably won't even attempt to skate in the 2014 Senior Nationals. Edmunds' time will come in 2018, in Pyeongchang.

But yes. It's almost terrifying how time flies, right?
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Now, let's not get ahead of ourselves ;) I doubt that Edmunds, without any international JUNIOR experience, will spontaneously sprout wings, fly up the ranks, and qualify for the Olympics next year. As mskater93 said, she has technical weaknesses--edge calls on the 3F and a recurring UR problem that NEEDS to be fixed ASAP. She looked absolutely lovely in her flowing white FS costume at Junior Nationals, but she isn't the breakthrough star that Gracie Gold was, and she probably won't even attempt to skate in the 2014 Senior Nationals. Edmunds' time will come in 2018, in Pyeongchang.

But yes. It's almost terrifying how time flies, right?
Edmunds has already competed as a junior at US Nationals for 3 seasons and won the title this seasons so I'm pretty sure she will compete at senior Nationals next season...and she is a breakthrough star like Gracie Gold she's just younger and breaking out a year later and USFS already jumped on the Gracie Gold bandwagon so they are not going to treat Polina the same way, there's not time for her to become established enough to be a big hope for Sochi. There's a small chance she could make the team, but only as a 3rd entrant and not one USFS would really be expecting much from. Gracie is good but I'm not convinced she's way better than a lot of the other girls, she just happened to break onto the scene at the right time when USFS needed a go-to ladies star and no one else was a strong bet so they went with her and her PCS astronomically increased over the course of a few months time (without her artistry visibly improving dramatically IMO).
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
It doesn't necessarily open a spot, it didn't with Flatt in 2011, and it didn't with Czisny in 2012!

So...this would more or less suggest Wagner and/or Gold would still compete if injured?

I guess that's possible, but I'd hope they'd know better than to do that.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Edmunds has already competed as a junior at US Nationals for 3 seasons and won the title this seasons so I'm pretty sure she will compete at senior Nationals next season...and she is a breakthrough star like Gracie Gold she's just younger and breaking out a year later and USFS already jumped on the Gracie Gold bandwagon so they are not going to treat Polina the same way, there's not time for her to become established enough to be a big hope for Sochi. There's a small chance she could make the team, but only as a 3rd entrant and not one USFS would really be expecting much from. Gracie is good but I'm not convinced she's way better than a lot of the other girls, she just happened to break onto the scene at the right time when USFS needed a go-to ladies star and no one else was a strong bet so they went with her and her PCS astronomically increased over the course of a few months time (without her artistry visibly improving dramatically IMO).

While I appreciate your fandom for some skaters (Dornbush, Farris, Edmunds), sometimes I do wonder whether these skaters that you discount repeatedly (Gold, Miner, Brown) drown your kitten or something. Last season, you thought there was NO WAY Gold would medal at her JGP event (I believe over Cesario) or at JWs (over Gao) and now you think she's getting gifted on PCS because of political backing and you don't see what's so great about her (replace the name Gold with Miner and it comes across in the same way in threads about Men's skating or Brown's name when discussing Junior men this year). Gold's ability to project, her confidence, speed and flow increased throughout the season (with a few bumps along the way as she continued to figure out how to compete at the highest level) coupled with skating clean (or near clean) with some of the hardest content in Ladies' skating explains WHY her PCS (PCS =/= artistry as much as we'd all like to think it did) increased throughout the season. I saw that program set from summer until about a week before she left for Worlds and it was night and day different in its effect on the viewer and how it came across as she got mileage on it - it had more confidence, flow, speed, power, interpretation, etc.

Edmunds had issues rotating all of her jumps in her programs at Nationals (and these were quite obvious in real time) and her score did not come close to either Gold's Junior score from the season before or Hicks' score from the season before that which are the top 2 domestic junior scores ever. IF USFS was so interested in jumping on an up and comer's bandwagon with the right timing of Sochi/Olympics/Worlds, it would have been Hicks, not Gold who was the one on the radar and the recipient of strong political backing. The reasons why USFS is interested in Gold more than Hicks or Edmunds right now heading into Sochi and the next quadrenium:

1) Gold has excellent jumping technique (lip notwithstanding - she IS working on that as it's something that developed from working on the 3F+3T and 3F+1Lo+3S) and almost never has under-rotation issues (the SP at Worlds being the exception to that) which is more than you can say for the last group of skaters coming up through the ranks that were highly touted (Nagasu, Zhang, Flatt, etc)
2) Gold has gone through puberty and has regained her skills from that disasterous junior season where she didn't make Nationals
3) Gold has high level spins which are fast, centered, and get pretty good GOE, so she doesn't just nail big jumps but have meh spins
4) Gold is more aesthetically pleasing to watch skate than Hicks as her stroking and transition technique is much more pleasing to the eye in general. Yes, it's still stiff looking in her shoulders and upper back, but she isn't clunky looking below the waist.
5) She has good speed and power across the ice. Is she Yuna Kim or Carolina Kostner fast -- yet? No, but there's been improvement in that throughout the season as well.

Overall, Gold has the right mental fortitude to become a champion - she wants to win, she works hard, she learns from her mistakes in practice and competition; she has many of the right pieces in place around her to succeed (frankly I think Alex O is one of the best technical coaches I've ever watched teach kids 2A and 3's and her mom is one of the most realistic and supportive skating mothers I've ever met) and let's face it, she's very attractive and has a GREAT name.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Edmunds hasn't competed in the JGP as yet. Gardena was her first international competition ever. Yes, she won it, but look who she beat, and by how much:

158.45 Polina EDMUNDS USA
123.61 Rin NITAYA JPN
116.54 Briley PIZZELANTI ITA
115.92 Guia Maria TAGLIAPIETRA ITA
106.36 Caterina ANDERMARCHER ITA
100.00 Kelsea SUAREZ PHI

No doubt Polina will skate in the JGP this summer/fall, but that isn't any kind of preparation for a senior championship event at the level of the Olympics. There is no way she will outskate Wagner, Gold, Hicks and a number of other senior ladies at Nationals.

Here's how Polina's winning 101.70 FS was scored at Nationals:
3z+3t<, 3fe+3t<<, 2a, 3lo+2t+2lo<, 3fe, 2a, 3s<

I think Polina will do well at the JGP, but amid senior skaters, she would look decidably juniorish. She also tends to choose costumes which are, well, a bit outlandish.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I am not denying Gracie is talented and I can't say I saw her skate live at Worlds, I'm sure she was much improved from the summer. All I'm saying is that the summer before Gold's break-out season, she was scoring in the 40s for PCS and her FS scores were around 100 to 110 - in other words, VERY comparable to Edmunds now so if Gracie can come that far in terms of scores and placements and being a factor on the World stage in a year and a half then that means there's a chance could do the same thing and be in a similar situation to Gracie in a year and a half. That's more what I'm saying. Gold is a great skater for sure, but she also got hyped and pushed out onto the scene at warped speed, giving chances the USFS would not have given to other skaters. I'm not saying she didn't deserve those chances, arguably she did, but she was lucky to get sent to a JGP after not qualifying for Nationals (I think she's the only female skater to have done that ever), and to get sent to WTT when she was not even a senior domestically, and to get the nod to compete on the GP this season versus the JGP, and to get 2 spots after having minimal WS points. That is all I'm saying. Does her talent warrant her express speed trajectory and the opportunities she was given? Yes, sure. But are there other very talented skaters who have not been given the same kind of treatment and/or opportunities despite similar results? Yes. So she is a special case.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
I am not denying Gracie is talented and I can't say I saw her skate live at Worlds, I'm sure she was much improved from the summer. All I'm saying is that the summer before Gold's break-out season, she was scoring in the 40s for PCS and her FS scores were around 100 to 110 - in other words, VERY comparable to Edmunds now so if Gracie can come that far in terms of scores and placements and being a factor on the World stage in a year and a half then that means there's a chance could do the same thing and be in a similar situation to Gracie in a year and a half. That's more what I'm saying. Gold is a great skater for sure, but she also got hyped and pushed out onto the scene at warped speed, giving chances the USFS would not have given to other skaters. I'm not saying she didn't deserve those chances, arguably she did, but she was lucky to get sent to a JGP after not qualifying for Nationals (I think she's the only female skater to have done that ever), and to get sent to WTT when she was not even a senior domestically, and to get the nod to compete on the GP this season versus the JGP, and to get 2 spots after having minimal WS points. That is all I'm saying. Does her talent warrant her express speed trajectory and the opportunities she was given? Yes, sure. But are there other very talented skaters who have not been given the same kind of treatment and/or opportunities despite similar results? Yes. So she is a special case.

Edmunds had the same opportunity to wow USFSA this past summer and get a JGP event. If you look at her FS scores from her summer comps:

114.22 Broadmoor Open
101.68 Glacier Falls (qualifying FS)
88.47 Glacier Falls (final FS)
80.14 U.S. Challenge Skate

Basically, Polina had a strong start in summer comps, then declined from there. I personally think that Polina should have had a JGP slot, but she certainly did make a strong case for USFSA to give her one. I'm sure if Polina was getting 100+ scores and getting both her 3-3 completely ratified for all those competitions, they would have found a way to get her a JGP.

That said, now that Polina has had a great international result and is getting some coaching from the political-clout master Frank Carroll, she will get two JGP.

Gracie went from falling four times (right?) at Midwestern sectionals and not qualifying for Nationals to suddenly dominating competitions with 100+ FS scores and consistently hitting 3F-3T, 3Z-3T and 2A-3T. And here's her scores
109.62 Skate Detroit
102.63 Glacier Falls
(Were there others?)

And let's be fair, Gracie didn't get a JGP until the ABSOLUTE last event (and that only happened because Yasmin Siraj opted to not compete in a second event to focus on Nationals so they ended up having an extra spot), so it's not like they were throwing all their eggs in the Gracie basket right away. The hype, IMO, started after she won the JGP, her first international event ever.

Also if Gracie ended up on the JGP again instead of heading to GP, that would have been two fewer spots for the already crowded U.S. JGP Ladies pool.
 
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