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Thread: Which THREE U.S. Ladies do you want to see at the Olympics next year?

  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Yu Na Kim at 17 was already WAY better than any of the skaters you mentioned currently are at that age or older, and she only continued to improve significantly each year since then. Based on that it would be a huge stretch for any of those to be at the level of Vancouver or even London or Los Angeles Yu Na Kim. It is never going to happen. Not to mention her record of 7 years of Senior competition not missing a single podium, quite possibly 2 Olympic Golds and 6 World medals and 3 Grand Prix final titles and so on.

    I do like that group and I look forward to their taking over as the ones on top following the retirements of the vets after 2010, but Kim possibly deciding on coming back would be strictly on her own level of skating, and whether she could still skate at or close to her former level given age, injuries, time away, etc...
    Again, ice is slippery. Gracie Gold and Zijun Li have made huge strides in just one senior season, Kaetlyn Osmond came out of nowhere at 2012 SC, and the young Russians have proven themselves to be medal challengers on the international stage. I'm optimistic about their futures, and even if Yuna isn't around for comparison by then, I'd expect them to equal her technical ability and come within the lower range of her PCS (like Carolina Kostner now).

    Never say never.

  2. #167
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    Whatever, we will have to agree to disagree. I like all those skaters you mentioned and am looking forward to the post Sochi ladies era, and think all 5 of those skaters will be future World medalists, some future World Champions. However a skater of Yu Na Kims level of COP skating, point getting, consistency, dominance, and achievement, none of them will be that. That skater wont come around for awhile, just like another Michelle Kwan in the U.S wont come around for a very long time in the U.S although I am sure the USFSA will try their hardest to make Gold the next Michelle Kwan. I could actually see Gold matching Kwans feat of 9 straight U.S titles starting next year, matching her international resume will be alot harder though.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Whatever, we will have to agree to disagree. I like all those skaters you mentioned and am looking forward to the post Sochi ladies era, and think all 5 of those skaters will be future World medalists, some future World Champions. However a skater of Yu Na Kims level of COP skating, point getting, consistency, dominance, and achievement, none of them will be that. That skater wont come around for awhile, just like another Michelle Kwan in the U.S wont come around for a very long time in the U.S although I am sure the USFSA will try their hardest to make Gold the next Michelle Kwan. I could actually see Gold matching Kwans feat of 9 straight U.S titles starting next year, matching her international resume will be alot harder though.
    No way will Gracie ever come close to Michelle's 9 straight U.S titles. Besides the fact that Kwan won her first title at only 15 while Gracie will already be 18 next season i don't Gracie sticking around that long plus i can't see anyone dominating like Michelle did.

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    You have to remember that Kwan skated at her first Senior Worlds in 1994, at the age of 13. She was 8th that year, and 4th the next, and finally won her first World Championship in 1996, at 15.

    Today, skaters have to be 15 to skate at Worlds, so no one can match Kwan's record.

    The only skater today who has been around as long as Michelle was, is Carolina Kostner, who had her ups and downs and injuries along the way.

  5. #170
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    It's always gut instinct to assume Gold and Wagner on the team...but ANYTHING CAN AND WILL HAPPEN in skating. Injury, illness or just an outright slump can hit just about anyone, including those two.

    BUT - as it's impossible to predict what will happen next season, FOR NOW we can go ahead and assume Wagner and Gold on the team and guess at who will be #3. I think it will be between Zawadzki, Gao and Hicks (depends on whose nerves hold up). If all three hit I think it will be Zawadzki.

    Nagasu? Unfortunately she had her chance to really make her mark this season and now slipped even further back. I think she will have to have a Czisny 2010-like renaissance to have a shot. Plus, she's already been to the Olympics so I'd rather one of the three above get the spot. But it would be a great comeback story if she made her 2nd Oly team.

    Czisny? What do we do with her? Anyway, it seems the entire world is working against her at this point. Back to back injuries, coming off 22nd at worlds and the one year she's finally off the team, the 3rd spot materializes once again. Between us, I don't she deserves it at all. She's been given chance after chance after chance and blows it virtually every time. She had a shot at the team in 2006 and an even better one in 2010 but bombed BOTH times. Nothing tells me she'll hold it together this time and even if she does, her competition is much stiffer now than it was 4 years ago...

    Zhang? Basically you can just stick a fork in her. Don't see it happening. Even with another hearty comeback I don't see her higher than 4th or 5th. The Olympic team is out of reach for her at this point, I'm afraid.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    You have to remember that Kwan skated at her first Senior Worlds in 1994, at the age of 13. She was 8th that year, and 4th the next, and finally won her first World Championship in 1996, at 15.

    Today, skaters have to be 15 to skate at Worlds, so no one can match Kwan's record.

    The only skater today who has been around as long as Michelle was, is Carolina Kostner, who had her ups and downs and injuries along the way.
    Kim with her 2nd Olympic Gold would have a superior overall record to Michelle Kwan IMO. Whether or not she is the better skater is another debate of course.

    I am not sure if we will see a U.S lady that compares to Michelle Kwan for a very long time, especialy with the force of womens skating heading to Asia now. I am also not sure when or if we will see the U.S be the country to beat in ladies skating again, like it was for so many decades.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post

    BUT - as it's impossible to predict what will happen next season, FOR NOW we can go ahead and assume Wagner and Gold on the team and guess at who will be #3. I think it will be between Zawadzki, Gao and Hicks (depends on whose nerves hold up). If all three hit I think it will be Zawadzki.

    Nagasu? Unfortunately she had her chance to really make her mark this season and now slipped even further back. I think she will have to have a Czisny 2010-like renaissance to have a shot. Plus, she's already been to the Olympics so I'd rather one of the three above get the spot. But it would be a great comeback story if she made her 2nd Oly team.

    Czisny? What do we do with her? Anyway, it seems the entire world is working against her at this point. Back to back injuries, coming off 22nd at worlds and the one year she's finally off the team, the 3rd spot materializes once again. Between us, I don't she deserves it at all. She's been given chance after chance after chance and blows it virtually every time. She had a shot at the team in 2006 and an even better one in 2010 but bombed BOTH times. Nothing tells me she'll hold it together this time and even if she does, her competition is much stiffer now than it was 4 years ago...

    Zhang? Basically you can just stick a fork in her. Don't see it happening. Even with another hearty comeback I don't see her higher than 4th or 5th. The Olympic team is out of reach for her at this point, I'm afraid.
    I just don't get the love for Zawadzki. You say Nagasu, Czisny and Zhang have had their chances, which is true, but all have sometime in their career done something with their chances. Zawadzki has also had chances in the last three years. Six grand prix and only a bronze to show for it. Two 4 conetinents the last two years, and has a sixth and eighth, behind Zhang who medaled last year and Gao this year. She finished behind Gao and Nagasu in the GP this year. Her all time international personal best is 166, which is behind Gao by 10 points and much more behind Nagasu, Gold, and Czisny. It is even behind Hannah Miller. The only place she ever does well is with sympathetic nationals judges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b-man View Post
    I just don't get the love for Zawadzki.
    For some reason she gets big scores in the SP at Nationals which automatically puts her among the top 3 or 4...not too sure why, since she barely cracks 60 internationally AT BEST. This makes her one of the prime contenders (and one can argue - perhaps even the favorite) for the 3rd spot...whether or not she "deserves" to be in such a position, YMMV.

  9. #174
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    Why do all threads become a yuna kim thread seriously?

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Kim with her 2nd Olympic Gold would have a superior overall record to Michelle Kwan IMO. Whether or not she is the better skater is another debate of course.

    I am not sure if we will see a U.S lady that compares to Michelle Kwan for a very long time, especialy with the force of womens skating heading to Asia now. I am also not sure when or if we will see the U.S be the country to beat in ladies skating again, like it was for so many decades.
    After Sochi Kim Mao and Suzuki and most likely Ando will retire. The other skaters like Murakami are beatable and can be beat. I don't see another dynamo coming out of Japan at the moment and there hasn't been anyone that's come out of SK since Yuna. China does have some skaters like Li Zijun but she doesn't seem to be as good as Yuna and Mao were at the same age so the US has a good chance of beating the Asian skaters after 2014.

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Kim with her 2nd Olympic Gold would have a superior overall record to Michelle Kwan IMO. Whether or not she is the better skater is another debate of course.

    I am not sure if we will see a U.S lady that compares to Michelle Kwan for a very long time, especialy with the force of womens skating heading to Asia now. I am also not sure when or if we will see the U.S be the country to beat in ladies skating again, like it was for so many decades.
    Kwan competed for 12 seasons, skating everything and anything from the time she was 13 until she was 21, including the Grand Prix, Worlds, and every pro-am and cheesefest. It was only from the fall of 2002 on that she stopped doing the GP circuit, because of her developing hip problem. But she still competed at Nationals and Worlds every year until 2006, when she was in such pain that she was unable to continue.

    Kim started competing at in the 2004 JGP. She competed in the 2005 JGP, then moved up to the GP in 2006 and competed through 2010 Worlds, then skipped the 2010 GPF, but skated at 2011 Worlds. She then was absent from competition until an International B in early 2013 and 2013 Worlds. So she did not have the continuity that Kwan did.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Kwan competed for 12 seasons, skating everything and anything from the time she was 13 until she was 21, including the Grand Prix, Worlds, and every pro-am and cheesefest. It was only from the fall of 2002 on that she stopped doing the GP circuit, because of her developing hip problem. But she still competed at Nationals and Worlds every year until 2006, when she was in such pain that she was unable to continue.

    Kim started competing at in the 2004 JGP. She competed in the 2005 JGP, then moved up to the GP in 2006 and competed through 2010 Worlds, then skipped the 2010 GPF, but skated at 2011 Worlds. She then was absent from competition until an International B in early 2013 and 2013 Worlds. So she did not have the continuity that Kwan did.
    Yes, but Yu-Na has a 4CC title that Michelle doesn't have (simply because she didn't compete there) and the OGM, Yu-Na, however, has "just" two World title, when michelle has five: for me, at the moments, they're virtually tied; but, if Yu-Na wins a second OGM, her record will definitely be superior to Michelle, and it won't be a matter of opinions, just the evidence of the numbers... However, this doesn't tell anything about who's the best skater, obviously!

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    Yes, but Yu-Na has a 4CC title that Michelle doesn't have (simply because she didn't compete there) and the OGM, Yu-Na, however, has "just" two World title, when michelle has five: for me, at the moments, they're virtually tied; but, if Yu-Na wins a second OGM, her record will definitely be superior to Michelle, and it won't be a matter of opinions, just the evidence of the numbers... However, this doesn't tell anything about who's the best skater, obviously!
    Indeed. I agree with you and Pangtongfan. Past a certain point, it's hard to rank skaters in degrees of excellence, and I kind of don't enjoy doing that anyway. The "immortal" skaters each give an individual kind of thrill when they skate, and they're too few and far between for me to want to push one down below another—and emphatically both Michelle and YuNa are among the immortals. Plushenko has multiple Olympic medals, and Browning has none. Does that really say anything about their rankings? They're both in the skating stratosphere. Katarina Witt has two Olympic golds and Michelle has only a silver and a bronze. Does that mean that Witt is a better skater than Michelle? If YuNa wins a second OGM, it will be marvelous, and I'll certainly rejoice (though I'm also rooting for Mao), but I can't compare her to Kwan.

  14. #179
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    Buy the way, Michelle did not win 9 straight U.S. titles. Tara slipped in there in 1997.

  15. #180
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    Incidentally, that was after she won her first title...she was unable to defend...something which Wagner managed to accomplish this year (!)

    By the skin of her teeth, yes, but still...wow

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