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Thread: Which THREE U.S. Ladies do you want to see at the Olympics next year?

  1. #31
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    She doesn't need to bother with a back-end 3Toe or 3Loop combo in the LP at all. Just do a 3T+2A sequence and put 5 jumping passes in the second half of the program, like Miki Ando did in 2011. Ashley has great stamina and great quality jumps. There's honestly no point in risking a harder jump combination in the LP that will just tire her out more and possibly get <.

    [...]
    You're not serious, are you?

  2. #32
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I don't recall Ashley ever getting credit for 3z+3lo, or any 3/3 combo. Any time she's tried it, she's gotten the 2nd jump UR.
    2008 Nationals she got credit for 3Lz+3Lo in both programs and both were cleanly landed. The one she did in the SP was absolutely rotated, the one in the LP was perhaps < . A cleanly landed 3Lz+3Lo< is still worth going for, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    You're not serious, are you?
    Of course I'm serious. It's definitely, definitely the best competition strategy for catering to Ashley's skill set. 3T+2A sequence in the second of the program is worth 6.51 points and is a very sure thing for her to be able to hit and get +GOE on. Comparatively, 2Axel+3Toe in the first half of the program is worth 7.4 in base value, but when will she ever execute that combo cleanly and fully rotated? She's taking a big risk for a base value increase of just .9. Plus the 2Axel+3Toe requires a longer setup time, so that brings her transitions score down, and it also takes more energy and creates more stress, which makes the rest of the LP harder.

  3. #33
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Which three U.S. Ladies do you want to see at the Olympics next year?

    Caroline Zhang.

    That is, I wish she would skate so well next season and at nationals that she deserves to make the team.

  4. #34
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    Gracie Gold, Ashley Wagner, and Christina Gao.

    Gracie and Ashley, in my opinion, deserves to go

  5. #35
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    I could see Gracie not making it, actually. She's not that consistent and she could still have some sort of growth spurt.
    Gracie hasn't grown more than 1/2 an inch total in 2 years. She grew 3-4 inches the year she missed Nationals.

    Gracie is actually VERY consistent. In practice she rarely misses ANYTHING that is in her programs. She is learning how to compete and bring what she does to practice with her onto the competition ice. Watching her go from complete meltdown (at SC) to Worlds (6th where she fought for everything) tells me she's on the right track on this plan...

  6. #36
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I don't recall Ashley ever getting credit for 3z+3lo, or any 3/3 combo. Any time she's tried it, she's gotten the 2nd jump UR.
    Everyone seems to forget that at last season's 4CC her 3F+3T in the SP was ratified with +0.2 GOE (but it was two-footed), the same at WTT, but the GOE there was -0.3, so she got two ratified 3-3s last season!!

  7. #37
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    Maybe Ashley would go for 3+3 in WTT or her first GP of the season.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Gracie hasn't grown more than 1/2 an inch total in 2 years. She grew 3-4 inches the year she missed Nationals.

    Gracie is actually VERY consistent. In practice she rarely misses ANYTHING that is in her programs. She is learning how to compete and bring what she does to practice with her onto the competition ice. Watching her go from complete meltdown (at SC) to Worlds (6th where she fought for everything) tells me she's on the right track on this plan...
    I actually think you may be right. People sometimes talk about how 3lo is such a bad jump for Gracie, unreliable, whatever, but the 3lo she did in the FS at Nationals and Worlds were really nice. So nice, and looked so easy for her, that I really think she should work towards doing 3lz-3t and a 3lo in her SP next season, that way she can build up consistency on the 3lo, train just one 3-3, avoid the edge call on her 3f, and be able to really work on addressing the 3f edge problem without putting herself in a high stakes situation (if she's working on fixing the edge, it could affect her consistency with the 3f, but if she is only doing one 3f between her 2 programs, it is not a big concern).

  9. #39
    Six Point Zero Krislite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    [...]
    Of course I'm serious. It's definitely, definitely the best competition strategy for catering to Ashley's skill set. 3T+2A sequence in the second of the program is worth 6.51 points and is a very sure thing for her to be able to hit and get +GOE on. Comparatively, 2Axel+3Toe in the first half of the program is worth 7.4 in base value, but when will she ever execute that combo cleanly and fully rotated? She's taking a big risk for a base value increase of just .9. Plus the 2Axel+3Toe requires a longer setup time, so that brings her transitions score down, and it also takes more energy and creates more stress, which makes the rest of the LP harder.
    If I recall correctly, you weren't exactly thrilled by Miki Ando's winning strategy of back-loading her program, so I thought you were kidding about Ashley doing 5 jumping passes in the second half.

    I disagree about Ashley going only for a 3/3 in the SP and omitting it in the LP. If she can get a 3/3 consistent enough to be included in the SP, why not include it in the LP as well? Besides, it would force her to train it more frequently, which I imagine can only help her.

  10. #40
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    Ashley, Alissa & Christina.

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    Ashley and 3FLutz-3Loop? She can't even do 2A-3T.
    A combo that guarantees -GOE, who wants that?

    There's no chance she can compete with the top girls unless she has the skate of her life, and they fall 5 times. As you can see, Caro fell twice, and popped once, and still beat her by more than 10 points. Caro can fall 2 more times and still beat Ashley.

    The only way to improve her chance at a medal is to have a consistent 3x3 in both SP and LP. She can't afford to give away a single point for doing 3T-2A unless all she wants is a spot on the Olympics team. If all she wants is a spot on the Olympics team, then she can just do whatever she's doing now. All other suggestions seem so silly and useless for someone like her.

    Her best jump is actually her 3F, so naturally, that should be the jump she uses for the 3x3 combo. Her 2A was never that good, and got UR calls consistently just a year or two ago.

  12. #42
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    I'm glad to read that Gracie has stopped growing! She's going, then. Why was she in 9th after the short program at World's? Her performance wasn't linked like the rest of them, and of course I'm part of the 99% without Universal Sports so I didn't actually see it live. I assumed that she had made a mistake. She also didn't do well at 4CC. I don't see where she's consistent at all, especially in her short program.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Ashley and 3FLutz-3Loop? She can't even do 2A-3T.
    A combo that guarantees -GOE, who wants that?

    There's no chance she can compete with the top girls unless she has the skate of her life, and they fall 5 times. As you can see, Caro fell twice, and popped once, and still beat her by more than 10 points. Caro can fall 2 more times and still beat Ashley.

    The only way to improve her chance at a medal is to have a consistent 3x3 in both SP and LP. She can't afford to give away a single point for doing 3T-2A unless all she wants is a spot on the Olympics team. If all she wants is a spot on the Olympics team, then she can just do whatever she's doing now. All other suggestions seem so silly and useless for someone like her.

    Her best jump is actually her 3F, so naturally, that should be the jump she uses for the 3x3 combo. Her 2A was never that good, and got UR calls consistently just a year or two ago.
    Well she was 4th and 5th at the last 2 Worlds so she has to strive to catch up to the top 3. It doesnt mean she will, but what else should she motivate herself with.

  14. #44
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    If I recall correctly, you weren't exactly thrilled by Miki Ando's winning strategy of back-loading her program, so I thought you were kidding about Ashley doing 5 jumping passes in the second half.
    I disliked it when Miki did it because that program was trash. If a program was actually choreographed to utilize the layout, then there wouldn't be anything particularly wrong with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    I disagree about Ashley going only for a 3/3 in the SP and omitting it in the LP. If she can get a 3/3 consistent enough to be included in the SP, why not include it in the LP as well?
    Well I already covered all the reasons:

    1. Getting a < call on your 3-3 in the SP doesn't matter as much because your jumping passes are limited anyway. A 3-3< is still worth more than a 3-2, wheres in the LP doing a 3-3< is worth less points than doing a Triple jump in sequence with a double axel.

    2. The amount of energy spent doing a 3-3 in the SP doesn't matter because the program is much shorter. In the LP there's so much more you have to execute.

    3. Doing a 3-3 in the SP already establishes your reputation. The result of the SP very much determines how judges look at you in the LP, and once you've established that reputation the LP is basically about collecting points as intelligently as possible. If you are a skater the judges like, it doesn't really matter if your technical content in the LP is a bit lower. GOE and PCS is the name of the game.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Well she was 4th and 5th at the last 2 Worlds so she has to strive to catch up to the top 3. It doesnt mean she will, but what else should she motivate herself with.
    That was my point.
    If she wants a spot on the Olympics spot, then do whatever she's doing now.
    If she wants a medal, then she needs a 3x3, and a smarter layout.

    She's someone who can't afford to throw away any fraction of a point. So a 3T-2A in her program is a stupid idea. It doesn't accomplish anything more than what she can do now.
    Her flutz is well known, so doing a flutz combo and get guaranteed -GOE is also another stupid idea. If you two-foot and get -GOE, then that's fine. Why work on a combo that will get you -GOE immediately at take off?
    Her best jump is her 3F. Why not work on 3x3 with a 3F? Start doing them even at Liberty. Don't wait until big event to pull it out.

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