Which THREE U.S. Ladies do you want to see at the Olympics next year? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Which THREE U.S. Ladies do you want to see at the Olympics next year?

FlattFan

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Jan 4, 2010
Ashley and 3FLutz-3Loop? She can't even do 2A-3T.
A combo that guarantees -GOE, who wants that?

There's no chance she can compete with the top girls unless she has the skate of her life, and they fall 5 times. As you can see, Caro fell twice, and popped once, and still beat her by more than 10 points. Caro can fall 2 more times and still beat Ashley.

The only way to improve her chance at a medal is to have a consistent 3x3 in both SP and LP. She can't afford to give away a single point for doing 3T-2A unless all she wants is a spot on the Olympics team. If all she wants is a spot on the Olympics team, then she can just do whatever she's doing now. All other suggestions seem so silly and useless for someone like her.

Her best jump is actually her 3F, so naturally, that should be the jump she uses for the 3x3 combo. Her 2A was never that good, and got UR calls consistently just a year or two ago.
 

Poodlepal

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Jan 14, 2010
I'm glad to read that Gracie has stopped growing! She's going, then. Why was she in 9th after the short program at World's? Her performance wasn't linked like the rest of them, and of course I'm part of the 99% without Universal Sports so I didn't actually see it live. I assumed that she had made a mistake. She also didn't do well at 4CC. I don't see where she's consistent at all, especially in her short program.
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
Ashley and 3FLutz-3Loop? She can't even do 2A-3T.
A combo that guarantees -GOE, who wants that?

There's no chance she can compete with the top girls unless she has the skate of her life, and they fall 5 times. As you can see, Caro fell twice, and popped once, and still beat her by more than 10 points. Caro can fall 2 more times and still beat Ashley.

The only way to improve her chance at a medal is to have a consistent 3x3 in both SP and LP. She can't afford to give away a single point for doing 3T-2A unless all she wants is a spot on the Olympics team. If all she wants is a spot on the Olympics team, then she can just do whatever she's doing now. All other suggestions seem so silly and useless for someone like her.

Her best jump is actually her 3F, so naturally, that should be the jump she uses for the 3x3 combo. Her 2A was never that good, and got UR calls consistently just a year or two ago.

Well she was 4th and 5th at the last 2 Worlds so she has to strive to catch up to the top 3. It doesnt mean she will, but what else should she motivate herself with.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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If I recall correctly, you weren't exactly thrilled by Miki Ando's winning strategy of back-loading her program, so I thought you were kidding about Ashley doing 5 jumping passes in the second half.

I disliked it when Miki did it because that program was trash. If a program was actually choreographed to utilize the layout, then there wouldn't be anything particularly wrong with it.

I disagree about Ashley going only for a 3/3 in the SP and omitting it in the LP. If she can get a 3/3 consistent enough to be included in the SP, why not include it in the LP as well?

Well I already covered all the reasons:

1. Getting a < call on your 3-3 in the SP doesn't matter as much because your jumping passes are limited anyway. A 3-3< is still worth more than a 3-2, wheres in the LP doing a 3-3< is worth less points than doing a Triple jump in sequence with a double axel.

2. The amount of energy spent doing a 3-3 in the SP doesn't matter because the program is much shorter. In the LP there's so much more you have to execute.

3. Doing a 3-3 in the SP already establishes your reputation. The result of the SP very much determines how judges look at you in the LP, and once you've established that reputation the LP is basically about collecting points as intelligently as possible. If you are a skater the judges like, it doesn't really matter if your technical content in the LP is a bit lower. GOE and PCS is the name of the game.
 

FlattFan

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Jan 4, 2010
Well she was 4th and 5th at the last 2 Worlds so she has to strive to catch up to the top 3. It doesnt mean she will, but what else should she motivate herself with.

That was my point.
If she wants a spot on the Olympics spot, then do whatever she's doing now.
If she wants a medal, then she needs a 3x3, and a smarter layout.

She's someone who can't afford to throw away any fraction of a point. So a 3T-2A in her program is a stupid idea. It doesn't accomplish anything more than what she can do now.
Her flutz is well known, so doing a flutz combo and get guaranteed -GOE is also another stupid idea. If you two-foot and get -GOE, then that's fine. Why work on a combo that will get you -GOE immediately at take off?
Her best jump is her 3F. Why not work on 3x3 with a 3F? Start doing them even at Liberty. Don't wait until big event to pull it out.
 

Kenyie

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Feb 27, 2012
Is there a reason to debate Ashley and Gracie? The USFSA has already purchased them thank you gifts for earning back three spots. That gift: round-trip tickets to Sochi.

Alissa Czisny is the classiest U.S. skater since Michelle Kwan, both in style and in spirit. I am biased: I saw Alissa at Skate America (my first live competition). But her 2010 LP was the best American ladies LP since Kwan's TOSCA. So full of life and choreographic detail. Its strengths almost overshadowed how ugly skating requirements have become.

Seeing her possibly triumphant GONE WITH THE WIND program before the inevitable ending was heartbreaking.

Alissa may not deserve a spot, but I hope my damned she earns one.

And if not her, Mirai. Why? Probably for the same reason. Sentiment.

But Christina is very good too.

(My first post: took me years.)
 

FSGMT

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Is there a reason to debate Ashley and Gracie? The USFSA has already purchased them thank you gifts for earning back three spots. That gift: round-trip tickets to Sochi.

Alissa Czisny is the classiest U.S. skater since Michelle Kwan, both in style and in spirit. I am biased: I saw Alissa at Skate America (my first live competition). But her 2010 LP was the best American ladies LP since Kwan's TOSCA. So full of life and choreographic detail. Its strengths almost overshadowed how ugly skating requirements have become.

Seeing her possibly triumphant GONE WITH THE WIND program before the inevitable ending was heartbreaking.

Alissa may not deserve a spot, but I hope my damned she earns one.

And if not her, Mirai. Why? Probably for the same reason. Sentiment.

But Christina is very good too.

(My first post: took me years.)
Welcome! :)
 

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
That was my point.
If she wants a spot on the Olympics spot, then do whatever she's doing now.
If she wants a medal, then she needs a 3x3, and a smarter layout.

She's someone who can't afford to throw away any fraction of a point. So a 3T-2A in her program is a stupid idea. It doesn't accomplish anything more than what she can do now.
Her flutz is well known, so doing a flutz combo and get guaranteed -GOE is also another stupid idea. If you two-foot and get -GOE, then that's fine. Why work on a combo that will get you -GOE immediately at take off?
Her best jump is her 3F. Why not work on 3x3 with a 3F? Start doing them even at Liberty. Don't wait until big event to pull it out.

OK I agree then. She should work on a 3 flip-3 toe combo, or maybe even a 3 flip-3 loop combo as 3 loop is another strong jump for her. She should start doing them early in the season too. She once did do a 3 lutz-3 loop combo and did it well, but she never seemed to do them again after 2008.
 

FSGMT

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Sep 10, 2012
OK I agree then. She should work on a 3 flip-3 toe combo, or maybe even a 3 flip-3 loop combo as 3 loop is another strong jump for her. She should start doing them early in the season too. She once did do a 3 lutz-3 loop combo and did it well, but she never seemed to do them again after 2008.
She should begin attempting 3F+3T from the beginning of the season, showing everyone that she's able to do it (or, at least, that she's trying it); her SP scores could suffer a bit, at the beginning, but she would benefit from it in the long term, I think.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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She's someone who can't afford to throw away any fraction of a point. So a 3T-2A in her program is a stupid idea. It doesn't accomplish anything more than what she can do now.

It does accomplish more than what she can do now, since she can never actually do a perfect LP with 3-3 or 2Axel-3Toe.

I disagree with your idea of her being someone who needs to focus on big jump combinations in the LP. She is capable of getting very good +GOE on all her elements and high PCS.

Your statement doesn't really make sense anyway because nobody can "afford to throw away" points. Everything is Risk vs Reward.

Why work on a combo that will get you -GOE immediately at take off?

Because base value and rep points for the SP could be worth it. She definitely needs to be doing a 3-3 in the SP, though, whether it's 3F-3T or 3Lz-3Lo.
 

Krislite

Medalist
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Sep 22, 2010
Omitting the 3/3 in the LP make sense only if your 3/3 is prone to UR.

Otherwise, there's another sort of WOW factor, I think, in going for the 3/3T in the LP even though in terms of BV it's the same (or even safer) as doing a 2A+3T. Kinda like why Carolina went for the 3F+3T and Yuna did a 3Lz+3T in the free skate at Worlds. Both of these girls could have more easily done a 2A+3T instead of a difficult 3/3T, but they chose otherwise.

Is that asking too much of Ashley? Is it beyond her abilities to consistently rotate a 3/3? I mean, we are talking about a strategy for targetting the Olympic podium, right? Considering the most likely top 3 girls are expected to do a hard 3/3 or a 3A in the free skate, Ashley's not gonna be competitive against them with only a 3/3 in the SP.
 

FlattFan

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Jan 4, 2010
It does accomplish more than what she can do now, since she can never actually do a perfect LP with 3-3 or 2Axel-3Toe.

I disagree with your idea of her being someone who needs to focus on big jump combinations in the LP. She is capable of getting very good +GOE on all her elements and high PCS.

Your statement doesn't really make sense anyway because nobody can "afford to throw away" points. Everything is Risk vs Reward.

It makes perfect sense because nobody can afford to throw away points. So Ashley shouldn't be throwing away points to do 3T-2A. It does not get her to the next level. If she's content with going to the Olympics, then she doesn't need to do anything else. If she wants a podium finish, doing 3T-2A won't get her there. No Risk, no reward. There's no vs. for Ashley, she will have to risk everything.

Because base value and rep points for the SP could be worth it. She definitely needs to be doing a 3-3 in the SP, though, whether it's 3F-3T or 3Lz-3Lo.

Of course we know that. I'm not saying she should not do 3x3. I'm saying she should not do 3Flutz-combo. Negative GOE no matter what is not something you want to start out with. Same reason Yuna switch her 3F-3T to 3Lz-3T.
 

FlattFan

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Jan 4, 2010
Is that asking too much of Ashley? Is it beyond her abilities to consistently rotate a 3/3? I mean, we are talking about a strategy for targetting the Olympic podium, right? Considering the most likely top 3 girls are expected to do a hard 3/3 or a 3A in the free skate, Ashley's not gonna be competitive against them with only a 3/3 in the SP.

I don't think it's too much for her. She landed one or two 3F-3T last season. If Akiko can bring a 3x3 that late in her career, Ashley should be able to. And she did.
The problem is her team thinks she's Carolina Kostner, can scale down the TES and win. Well, even Carolina Kostner can't do what Carolina Kostner did, what makes a vastly inferior skater thinks she can?
 

FlattFan

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Jan 4, 2010
Another combo she should consider is the 3F-Lo-3Sal. Her 3Sal is ok, not that strong, but not that weak. Her 3F is strong. Do this combo at the beginning. Less likely to be UR, and if I recall correctly, she doesn't two foot her 3Sal too much, right?
 

chuckm

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I'm glad to read that Gracie has stopped growing! She's going, then. Why was she in 9th after the short program at World's? Her performance wasn't linked like the rest of them, and of course I'm part of the 99% without Universal Sports so I didn't actually see it live. I assumed that she had made a mistake. She also didn't do well at 4CC. I don't see where she's consistent at all, especially in her short program.

Gracie had a weird landing on her 3z+3t in the SP---her 3t was called UR, and she got an edge call on her flip. Then she fell out of one of her spins. She scored 58.85 and was 9th, but only 3.25 points behind Asada in 6th place. She more than made up for the SP with her FS, where she landed 7 triples and placed 5th (6th overall).
 

sky_fly20

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Nov 20, 2011
Chances of making the Olympics team

Gracie Gold - 80%
Wagner - 40%

Alissa Czisny - 40% if she lands back her jumps she's in
Zawadzki - 30% the love affair and overpromotion will continue which I will never understand

20%
Gao , Miller, Hicks and Mirai

0 %
Caroline Zhang
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I'd love to see Gold, Wagner and Gao. Mirai and Agnes haven't really done it for me. I'm glad they got that 3rd spot because now Gao will likely be committed to making sure it's her rather than fighting off Gold or Wagner for #2.

As much as I love Alissa, I think it would be a big error to send her to the Olympics. There's no way she could compete at the level needed to earn a medal, without a 2A-3T or 3-3, which I highly doubt she will attain within a year. She was excellent in the first part of the the past quadrennial, but unfortunately for her, she just won't cut it now that the whole pack has recovered from the post-Vancouver technical slump (well, sort of).
 

ffionhanathomas

On the Ice
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Mar 12, 2013
Chances of making the Olympics team

Gracie Gold - 80%
Wagner - 40%

Alissa Czisny - 40% if she lands back her jumps she's in
Zawadzki - 30% the love affair and overpromotion will continue which I will never understand

20%
Gao , Miller, Hicks and Mirai

0 %
Caroline Zhang

But the percentages don't add up to 100..haha! But yes I think USFSA love Gold so much that she has the biggest chance, despite her inconsistencies.

I really want Gao, Wagner, and Czisny to make the team though. Yet who knows what will happen!
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
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Sep 14, 2008
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Considering the most likely top 3 girls are expected to do a hard 3/3 or a 3A in the free skate, Ashley's not gonna be competitive against them with only a 3/3 in the SP.

Completely disagreed. There is very little chance of Kostner and Asada actually delivering all of their planned content. Just look at this World Championships, where they even scored their highest of the whole season! Ashley definitely could have won the Silver at this World Championships with a smarter game plan, even after only doing a 3-2 in the SP. She was scoring close to 130 for the LP in her Grand Prix events earlier this season, with a missing Triple jump. That score could certainly be 135 with a more-polished 7-Triple backloaded program (what she needed for Silver after the SP). That's assuming the crappy choreography she had this year too! With a better program she could be breaking the 140 mark in the LP, without any 3-3 or 2Axel-3 attempt.

There's really no point in her going for that combination in the LP at this point in her career. Her performance at Worlds suffered from the 2Axel-3Toe attempt doing nothing but losing her points, both technically and in PCS. She strangely fell on her step sequence, perhaps because of fatigue (maybe caused by the energy expenditure earlier on that combination!) creating a lack of concentration. Backloading, maxing out her double jumps in combination (she should really start focusing on 3Flip-2Loop-2Loop, something she also has done in the past), and pushing for GOE and PCS is the key.

Ashley is strong and consistent. She jumps high on the Lutz/Flip/Loop, she rarely underrotates jumps (aside from 3-3 attempts), doesn't frequently make other mistakes, and she is capable of putting transitions before/after most jumps. Her spins are good and she has rather good flexibility, allowing her to do excellent spiral sequences. Her LP this season was sorely lacking a good Spiral. That charlotte they had in the program was SO wrong for the choreography and the lines Ashley is able to create.

Side note - I'm actually rather pissed that NONE of the Ladies this season did a full-on Spiral Sequence for their "choreography step sequence". Most of the sequences we saw were so underwhelming, with elements randomly strung together.
 
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