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Thread: Chan: I truly believe I deserved to win

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    In my opinion Chan won, because other skaters did not deliver. Fernandez would have won if he had skated the way he did at the Europeans. Also Hanyu and Takahashi could have challenged Chan, but they were not up to it. Ten´s skating was a surprise and well, he almost won the whole competition, not just the freeskate.
    But that's the interesting part - you say the skaters did not deliver, but then you say yourself that Ten delivered. It would be accurate to say that the skaters from the predetermined group of favorites (Chan, Hanuy, Fernandez, Takahashi) did not deliver. However, the judges were sort of programmed to give the gold to one of these four, and when none of them skated well, they gave the win to Chan. Were they too scared and unprepared to allow someone else to win?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    The judges are +3 happy in GOEs for Chan. His spins all get that, you would think he is a way better spinner than Lambiel, when in fact he is a weaker one.
    Huh?! He received no +3's for any of his spins in the FS.

    This article is him defending himself under criticism. The competition was two skates, and he put out a splendid SP which gave him a lead that wasn't surpassed in the freeskate, which Ten won. And as mentioned, Ten did a 2-2 instead of a 3-3, essentially leaving about 7 points on the table.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by babayaga View Post
    But that's the interesting part - you say the skaters did not deliver, but then you say yourself that Ten delivered. It would be accurate to say that the skaters from the predetermined group of favorites (Chan, Hanuy, Fernandez, Takahashi) did not deliver. However, the judges were sort of programmed to give the gold to one of these four, and when none of them skated well, they gave the win to Chan. Were they too scared and unprepared to allow someone else to win?
    I don't think so. Looking at the GOEs, they were certainly giving Ten the +3s -- even his footwork scored higher than Chan's. As for the PCS, Ten scored higher than Chan in Performance/Execution (and almost beat him in CH/IN), and Ten had Skating Skills equivalent to Takahashi... all Ten's other PCS categories were better than the entire field, except for Chan. I'm pretty sure Denis Ten doesn't have better choreography or interpretation than Takahashi (not that Chan did either, but if you're gonna compare Ten/Chan to Takahashi, the knife should cut both ways). Also, Chan's PCS was 3.5 points lower than his personal best (he rarely gets under 90 for PCS these days). As for the tech specialist, they correctly assessed the 3A as downgraded and also gave Chan level 3's on his spins, so it's not like they weren't doing their job either.

    If anything, I think the judges wanted to give Ten the victory, but after the SP there was simply no room. They could have easily buried Ten in the FS with reduced PCS, but instead his PCS was just 2 points shy of Chan's, and better than Takahashi/Hanyu/Fernandez, and enough to win the FS by 5.5 points.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by babayaga View Post
    But that's the interesting part - you say the skaters did not deliver, but then you say yourself that Ten delivered. It would be accurate to say that the skaters from the predetermined group of favorites (Chan, Hanuy, Fernandez, Takahashi) did not deliver. However, the judges were sort of programmed to give the gold to one of these four, and when none of them skated well, they gave the win to Chan. Were they too scared and unprepared to allow someone else to win?
    Wait...though, as much as some are complaining that Chan was overscored in the SP, he still brought it when the other heavy favourites failed to do so. And they failed to skate clean in their LP's as well, although they did not have as many mistakes as Chan. He talks about it being a 2 part comp, and he is correct to an extent, he's lucky he had the short that he did in order to win overall. To me he's just being honest about the judging and how he views it, he doesnt make the rules, he just tries to take advantage of them. Not saying it was completely fair, maybe he did get rep points.....and maybe he didn't, I'm not a scoring expert and to me it could have gone either way and I wouldn't have cared. Wish they all would have rose to the occasion, would have been a tremendous competition.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    I am not a "Chan uber" - whatever the heck that is! But I agree with Bluebonnet. I think there are a few people who just will not let this go. It's over folks. Chan won. Whether you like it or not -he did NOT judge himself. Maybe he doesn't think as quickly on his feet as some of you who have had time to digest every little single microscopic thing about his performance and can now expound at will with all the negativity your vocabulary can muster. He was asked a question, he answered it. He would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to have his sites set on Sochi. Do you think he's going to say "oh gee, I've had such bad skates I'll probably just have to concede the Olympics? Nothing he has said anywhere leads me to believe he thinks he has the OGM wrapped up. In fact, anyone who thinks he's going to show shame and disgust because he won doesn't know much about human instincts.

    I do not believe this sport has been spoiled by SLC OR by Chan! The average fan does not delve into the mysteries of the scoring system and research each move and each judge's ruling on it down to a microscopic level. The average fan does not chop each performance to bits and pieces from their armchairs weeks after the competition. The average fan is blaming the inscrutable scoring system for the fact that someone can fall and still win. It's almost as if some of you WANT the sport to fail and are just looking for reasons to justify your feelings.
    Thank you for taking the time to write this, I feel the same. I'm a fan of his, but I would feel the same about any of these fine athletes being personally attacked the way he is.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    I believe Chan is not the only skater who had implied that 'I deserve to win'. You know who.
    Said skater did not spend his long program Zamboni-ing the ice with his backside while another skater skated clean...

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Said skater did not spend his long program Zamboni-ing the ice with his backside while another skater skated clean...
    Ten was not clean. He messed up a jumping pass. Still probably should have been enough, but he wasn't the best he could have been for sure.

  8. #38
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    Many fans on the internet understand the COP very well, it's not that difficult and it's much more simple than gymnastics COP, for example. The thing is, some canadians and patrick fans (the rest of the public, skaters, some judges, commentators, all the other fans, EVERYBODY feels insulted by the disgusting results) try to justify the overscoring using the scoring sheets. They say, look, Patrick got +2 and +3 for almost everything else, it doesn't matter he did 4 big mistakes in the LP, he still got enough points to lead overall. The thing is, the scoring sheet is EXACTLY what proves that he was overscored. Or you think judges don't overscore skaters in this COP? In what world do you live in?

    Any other skater would get much lower pcs than usual (Takahashi, for example, did) for that number of mistakes. The thing is, he still got almost 90 in pcs, which is the number he usually gets. Takahashi made many mistakes, he got 85 for pcs. Patrick also made serious mistakes, but still got 90. Not to mention that Takahashi has better interpretation and sometimes has better choreography (last season, for example), and his pcs are almost never higher than Patrick in those those aspects, even when he hits and Patrick does not (2012 worlds).
    Patrick also often gets more goe's than he deserves. +2 and +3 to some jumps that were not landed perfectly, like in the SP. When the judges want to overscore a skater, they simply do that: give +2 and +3 to every element, and crazy high pcs, even with falls. (Carolina Kostner, for example, got +2 and some +3 for her spins). When they don't want to overscore a skater, they give +1, +2 and low pcs for performances with mistakes (most of the japanese skaters, including Akiko Suzuki who got lower pcs than Osmond who had two falls).
    Seriously, trying to justify Patrick's "victory" is disgusting.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gold12345 View Post
    Ten was not clean. He messed up a jumping pass. Still probably should have been enough, but he wasn't the best he could have been for sure.
    You can double a jump and still be clean. I don't want to see skaters doubling jumps, but Ten still landed all of his jumps properly. And its not like he spent all of his time doubling his jumps, he did far more clean triples than Chan...I don't think its right at all to say Ten wasn't clean. He wasn't perfect, but he certainly was clean.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGrand View Post
    Wait...though, as much as some are complaining that Chan was overscored in the SP, he still brought it when the other heavy favourites failed to do so. And they failed to skate clean in their LP's as well, although they did not have as many mistakes as Chan. He talks about it being a 2 part comp, and he is correct to an extent, he's lucky he had the short that he did in order to win overall. To me he's just being honest about the judging and how he views it, he doesnt make the rules, he just tries to take advantage of them. Not saying it was completely fair, maybe he did get rep points.....and maybe he didn't, I'm not a scoring expert and to me it could have gone either way and I wouldn't have cared. Wish they all would have rose to the occasion, would have been a tremendous competition.
    But I actually agree that among the top four predetermined favorites, Chan was probably the best between both short and long programs. But the world championship is not just between 4 skaters, but that's how it was judged it seems. Ten lost the overall victory in the short program, although he was as clean as Patrick there. He should have been behind, but maybe not by that much? I actually do not have a strong opinion on the results of the competition, but it somehow left me confused.

  11. #41
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    After looking at the protocol, I do believe Chan deserve to win. Both Chan and Ten doubled a jump, for Chan it was lutz, and Ten the flip. Chan had about 3 points higher base value even with the under-rotated 3A and 2Lutz. Combine that with the 7 points lead in SP, Chan had a cushion of 10 points over Ten. From GOE and mandatory deduction for falls, it cost him about 3.6 for the lutz, 4 for the 3A and a bit over 1 for the three jump combo, that's a total of over 8.6 point, less than the cushion he had. In addition, his 4T and 4T-3T gave him huge GOE because of the quality, so he won from the lead of SP, the the higher BV as well as the elements he did well. Ten did get higher performance/execution marks in the PCS. In fact I'm a bit surprised about the high PCS Ten got. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled for Ten. I was there and I cheered for him loudly. But Chan had better and more complex program and better skating skills. Chan simply skated bigger than anybody else even with the falls (from which he recovered very quickly). It's not a good way to win but under the current system he did deserve the win.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilvskating View Post
    After looking at the protocol, I do believe Chan deserve to win. Both Chan and Ten doubled a jump, for Chan it was lutz, and Ten the flip. Chan had about 3 points higher base value even with the under-rotated 3A and 2Lutz. Combine that with the 7 points lead in SP, Chan had a cushion of 10 points over Ten. From GOE and mandatory deduction for falls, it cost him about 3.6 for the lutz, 4 for the 3A and a bit over 1 for the three jump combo, that's a total of over 8.6 point, less than the cushion he had. In addition, his 4T and 4T-3T gave him huge GOE because of the quality, so he won from the lead of SP, the the higher BV as well as the elements he did well. Ten did get higher performance/execution marks in the PCS. In fact I'm a bit surprised about the high PCS Ten got. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled for Ten. I was there and I cheered for him loudly. But Chan had better and more complex program and better skating skills. Chan simply skated bigger than anybody else even with the falls (from which he recovered very quickly). It's not a good way to win but under the current system he did deserve the win.
    Ten BARELY got higher P/E than Chan it was negligible, he should have cleaned Chan's marks. I fail to see how Chan got 90 in pcs just about with that performance, Dai who was cleaner only got an 85,. Chan was overscored no amount of "numbers" which the judges hand over will convince me otherwise.... After all its the cheating judges who make the numbers.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Ten BARELY got higher P/E than Chan it was negligible, he should have cleaned Chan's marks. I fail to see how Chan got 90 in pcs just about with that performance, Dai who was cleaner only got an 85,. Chan was overscored no amount of "numbers" which the judges hand over will convince me otherwise.... After all its the cheating judges who make the numbers.
    Exactly!!!!!!!!

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    You can double a jump and still be clean. I don't want to see skaters doubling jumps, but Ten still landed all of his jumps properly. And its not like he spent all of his time doubling his jumps, he did far more clean triples than Chan...I don't think its right at all to say Ten wasn't clean. He wasn't perfect, but he certainly was clean.
    Actually, Chan did 2 clean quads, a 3A and 5 triples, Ten did 1 quad, two 3A and 4 other triples. Chan just did more over 3-revolution jumps than Ten did. Both skaters doubled a triple jump. So although Ten was clean he had a much easier jumping content. That's why even with the ur 3A, Chan still has higher BV.

    I certainly didn't want to see a champion with so many errors in the LP but that's life, like it or not, he did enough to win at that night, pure luck.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilvskating View Post
    Actually, Chan did 2 clean quads, a 3A and 5 triples, Ten did 1 quad, two 3A and 4 other triples. Chan just did more over 3-revolution jumps than Ten did. Both skaters doubled a triple jump. So although Ten was clean he had a much easier jumping content. That's why even with the ur 3A, Chan still has higher BV.

    I certainly didn't want to see a champion with so many errors in the LP but that's life, like it or not, he did enough to win at that night, pure luck.
    Patrick, fell. I don't consider what he did at triple axel. Chan did altogether only 4 clean triples in his program. Denis did 6clean triples. Three of Chan's jumping passes had major visible errors (I'm not counting doubles,) non of Ten's did.

    Denis also didn't have a single negative GOE...Same cannot be said for Chan. Just because the judges say it doesn't even merrit (a half of point higher on PCS) doesn't mean Ten didn't cream him on execution.

    Its ridiculous Chan is able to win with those kind of messes for programs. And its not like this is a one off for Patrick. He can't execute those programs cleanly. So why are they giving him these kind of PCS marks. Its not like its just one major error. I'm sorry I'm tired of chan getting rewarded for messiness.

    Denis did everything in his programs well...

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