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Thread: Chan: I truly believe I deserved to win

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Ten was not a skater with reputation (which he now has gotten) like Takahashi, Hanyu and Fernandez which did not deliver in the expected way.
    And yet, wasn't this vaunted IJS supposed to FIX reputation judging and other forms of corrupt judging? I thought this system was supposed to cure Figure Skating. Obviously, someone has sold us all a bill of goods. IJS is crap.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by zschultz1986 View Post
    And yet, wasn't this vaunted IJS supposed to FIX reputation judging and other forms of corrupt judging?
    No, I don't think so. I think the purpose of the IJS was to make it more difficult to spot cheating. I am not sure whether it succeeded in this goal or not.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by emdee View Post
    Have you forgotten the to do when Plushy lost to Lysachek? I dont think we Canadians were whining.
    Not true, several Canadians said Plushenko should have won, including Elvis Stojko.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    No, I don't think so. I think the purpose of the IJS was to make it more difficult to spot cheating. I am not sure whether it succeeded in this goal or not.
    LOL, I think it has... since almost no one but us ubers watch skating anymore, almost no one catches (or cares) about the cheating!

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    Quote Originally Posted by itoja View Post
    So now a fall means the jump is done?
    No, it doesn't. It means it was fully rotated and then deductions were applied accordingly. I think it's fair to say all deductions were fairly applied to Chan.

    Chan was far from perfect but he did enough to win. Less people seem to be outraged about the Germans' silver (since the Canadians URed their 3S, just like Ten downgraded to a 2-2, costing a higher placement), when they arguably had as many mistakes as Chan.

    Nobody seems to be outraged that Asada and Kostner were placed ahead of Li in the freeskate, even though she was much cleaner than both of them.

    Ten had a clean FS, which won him the FS, but it wasn't enough to win overall. Period.

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    Sounds like Chan needs attention and wants to correct his admittion about wrong win. Damage was done and repair is visible.

    He had the task and he failed to accomplish it in London. He should live with it and stop whining.

    He had a chance in Vancouver to be the first Canadian men with gold, he lost it. Now its time for Plushenko, Ten, Amodio, Fernandes, Hanyu.. Chan needs to learn from Plushenko how to be patient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Ten had a clean FS, which won him the FS, but it wasn't enough to win overall. Period.
    Which is a problem in IJS. I'm sorry, there are two phases in this competition. Chan absolutely bombed one. Also, you act as though Ten came from 12th place to win the free. He was just behind Chan after the Short, having skated extremely well. Chan's jumps even in the short were labored and from my view, didn't look to be seven points clear of Ten. You shouldn't be able to win a competition in the Short Program, but time and time again, Chan proves us wrong, and in so doing, exposes the massive flaws in this judging system.

    Also, people are outraged because this is consistently a problem with Chan, more-so than ANY other skater in the world today. His last 2 world championships are suspect at best, and at worst, they are frauds.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Less people seem to be outraged about the Germans' silver (since the Canadians URed their 3S, just like Ten downgraded to a 2-2, costing a higher placement), when they arguably had as many mistakes as Chan.
    Skating is not all TES. When it comes to PCS scores, the Germans have it by a mile. D/R are still rough around the edges and do not skate with the finesse of the Germans.

    Nobody seems to be outraged that Asada and Kostner were placed ahead of Li in the freeskate, even though she was much cleaner than both of them.
    Clean, yes. But Li was rather slow, her jumps were small and she skated with little expression. She just isn't in the same league with Asada and Kostner. Li got higher TES than Gold and Wagner, but her PCS scores were lower, so she placed below the two US ladies---and that was correct.

    Chan's falls were very clumsy. His entry into both jumps was bad and he ended up on his a**. 8.96 for transitions with two spectacular failures? When Chan delivers a subpar performance, he shouldn't be getting the same high PCS scores he gets for a decent one. Chan 'won' by 1.3 points, and basically because of inflated PCS scores.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Skating is not all TES. When it comes to PCS scores, the Germans have it by a mile. D/R are still rough around the edges and do not skate with the finesse of the Germans.

    Clean, yes. But Li was rather slow, her jumps were small and she skated with little expression. She just isn't in the same league with Asada and Kostner. Li got higher TES than Gold and Wagner, but her PCS scores were lower, so she placed below the two US ladies---and that was correct.

    Chan's falls were very clumsy. His entry into both jumps was bad and he ended up on his a**. 8.96 for transitions with two spectacular failures? When Chan delivers a subpar performance, he shouldn't be getting the same high PCS scores he gets for a decent one. Chan 'won' by 1.3 points, and basically because of inflated PCS scores.
    Okay... so you're saying because the Germans/Kostner/Asada have much better quality skating than Canadians/Li, "miles ahead" if you will, then it's justified giving them enough PCS in spite of errors to be placed ahead of them? (Keeping in mind a clean Ten was placed ahead of an errant Chan in the FS, unlike the cleaner Canadians/Li being placed ahead of the errant Germans/Kostner/Asada.) Ten doesn't skate with the finesse of Chan, nor is his speed or choreography "in the same league" as Chan (much like you said about the Canadians with respect to the Germans, or Li with respect to Kostner/Asada - which I agree with). I'm just saying that if you're justifying the Germans/Kostener/Asada's higher placement as a result of being better all-around skaters/having better programs, in spite of making errors, why does the buck stop when it comes to comparing Chan's program to Ten's?

    His transitions going into his jumps are still difficult. The landing of the jump wasn't a result of his transitions being performed poorly, if anything they added to the jump's difficulty, so he should still be credited for incorporating those transitions. The only thing that should drop is his transitions going out of the jumps because he generally performs his jumps with some transition afterwards, so yes, that should be reduced, but it's not like Ten had transitions going into and out of all his clean jumps.

    I acknowledge Chan's PCS was inflated, but do you or anyone here think Ten got inflated PCS scores over either of the two segments? Like, you think he deserved better interpretation and choreography in his freeskate than Takahashi, as the scores show?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Chan's falls were very clumsy. His entry into both jumps was bad and he ended up on his a**. 8.96 for transitions with two spectacular failures? When Chan delivers a subpar performance, he shouldn't be getting the same high PCS scores he gets for a decent one. Chan 'won' by 1.3 points, and basically because of inflated PCS scores.
    All very true, but many inflated GOEs as well, not just PCS. Ten also was way undermarked in PCS in the SP (LP was probably about right).

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I acknowledge Chan's PCS was inflated, but do you or anyone here think Ten got inflated PCS scores over either of the two segments? Like, you think he deserved better interpretation and choreography in his freeskate than Takahashi, as the scores show?
    Ten certainly deserved higher PCS than Takahashi in the LP, and it would have been a disgrace had he not received it given how both skated. D&R had almost the same quota of errors in the LP as the Germans, there is no comparision at all to Chan vs Ten situation. Had Worlds not been in Canada I am pretty sure D&R wouldnt have even been close to beating the Germans, and now way they do beat a clean S&S in the SP, and I am the furthest thing from a fan of S&S there is.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Ten certainly deserved higher PCS than Takahashi in the LP, and it would have been a disgrace had he not received it given how both skated. D&R had almost the same quota of errors in the LP as the Germans, there is no comparision at all to Chan vs Ten situation. Had Worlds not been in Canada I am pretty sure D&R wouldnt have even been close to beating the Germans, and now way they do beat a clean S&S in the SP, and I am the furthest thing from a fan of S&S there is.
    Huh?! Can you explain how D&R had about same quota of errors as the Germans?

    D&R's errors were SBS 3S<+2T+2T<, and a bit of a scratchy throw 3Z landing (for which they received mainly 0's but still a 'clean' jump)

    S&S turned a 3T-3T sequence into a 2T-2T sequence, turned a 3S into a 2S plus a fall, and had a clear double-foot on the 3A throw

    D&R's 3S<+2T+2T< alone (4.11 points) ended up getting almost 3 times the points as both of S&S's SBS jumping passes combined (1.45 points with the fall).

    The Germans had superior levels on the lifts, twist and death spiral, but D&R didn't make errors on these (as reflected by positive GOE).

    And we can agree to disagree, but Ten's choreography beating out Takahashi's choreography to me is a disgrace, even considering Takahashi's errors. As clean as Ten skated, 87 points is really high PCS - for comparison, it's just two points shy of Fernandez' PCS at Euros where he did 3 quads in a clean skate with a much better choreographed program than Ten.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    No, I don't think so. I think the purpose of the IJS was to make it more difficult to spot cheating. I am not sure whether it succeeded in this goal or not.
    ITA. They now use the "regular audience doesn't understand the COP" excuse, except most people who are still watching FS today have gotten accustomed to the system to understand what's going on. The anonymous judging also proves that they don't want cheaters to be identified.

    And I don't think that Patrick has to say "I think other skaters did better"- no one expects him to do that. I just wish for some humbleness. Instead of arguing for his scores, he could have simply said, everyone is entitled to their opinions, and I'm going to work to do better next time.
    Sure what he said could be deemed as "honesty", but it shows honestly the type of person he is.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Ten was not a skater with reputation (which he now has gotten) like Takahashi, Hanyu and Fernandez which did not deliver in the expected way.
    Exactly. It's like it was decided in advance that gold will go to one of those 4 skaters. None of them delivered, but one of them won anyway. And while I see why Ten is not as good of a skater as Chan, I do not think he is much behind Fernandez or Hanuy in program components. Yet, if one of them skated like he did, they'd win. I don't know, it all looks very strange to me. And we actually keep using "reputation" as a reason for someone's higher scores as if it is normal and not against the whole spirit of the sport. I am afraid the system doesn't work the way it was supposed to, but ISU is afraid to admit it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilvskating View Post
    I feel it amusing when people passionately debating if somebody deserve their win when they don't know the basics of rules for judging the sport.
    And I don't find it amusing at all, when somebody lies and when caught, comes with the inevitable - you don't know the rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilvskating View Post
    Actually, Chan did 2 clean quads, a 3A and 5 triples,
    In what sets of rules Chan did a 3A? He didn't rotate and didn't land it. Just because in the protocols there is written 3A and some numbers next to it, doesn't mean he did it.

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