Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6
Results 76 to 89 of 89

Thread: GP Speculation-2013-2014: THE LADIES

  1. #76
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,672
    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Hopefully the Russian fed. is not putting pressure on Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva to win a medal in Sochi, since absolutely nobody that isnt a Russian expects a medal from either one at this point, and it would be putting unreasonable and unrealistic pressure on both.
    They should have crushing pressure put on them so they can not only make top 5 in Sochi but try to take over from 2014 2018 and if that extreme pressure makes it possible for them to medal in Sochi then they will not only fulfilling Russia's expectations but their own too! I doubt Liza and Adelina are happy with their disastrous performances in London and huge pressure might help them short and long term and if they break under it then they weren't championships material ever. Right now zijun li and gold are better then them because maybe liza and adelina have not enough pressure or expectation.

  2. #77
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,349
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    They should have crushing pressure put on them so they can not only make top 5 in Sochi but try to take over from 2014 2018 and if that extreme pressure makes it possible for them to medal in Sochi then they will not only fulfilling Russia's expectations but their own too! I doubt Liza and Adelina are happy with their disastrous performances in London and huge pressure might help them short and long term and if they break under it then they weren't championships material ever. Right now zijun li and gold are better then them because hey have not enough pressure or expectation.
    Gracie didn't have expectations or pressure in the past year?

  3. #78
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,672
    No I meant that sotnikotva and tuktamisheva may havent had enough pressure put on them to skate to their fullest potential. Maybe they were too relaxed at worlds! Every girl with potential really surpassed them so maybe Liza and Adelina were coasting and not being put under pressure.

  4. #79
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,349
    I think Gracie if clean will beat Tuk if she skates clean just because of her superior speed and ice coverage and she could beat Adelina too. If Gracie finds her way as a total skater and not just a jumper she will be a possible World champion in the future.

  5. #80
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,555
    Be real! Liza and Adelina were expected, at the VERY least, to keep the 3 ladies' places for Sochi. They failed to do that; IMO, they were skating at their fullest potential, only they were extremely nervous because of the pressure. So were Gracie and Kaetlyn. The result was Adelina made mistakes in both SP and FS, Tuktamysheva fell on a spin and singled the axel in the SP, Gracie URd the 3/3 in the SP, and Kaetlyn fell twice in the FS. Pressure can be very disruptive.

  6. #81
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,672
    Fullest potential and clean is what I was talking about. I don't think fullest potential means the extreme messes that sotnikova and tuktamisheva displayed! Sotnikova can not leave out a three jump combo and Liza not do a 3/3 and be at their fullest! Euros was closer to their fullest. Maybe instead of too much pressure that they couldn't handle worlds there wasnt enough! Well if they were at their fullest potential and barely made the top 10 they are the not that good at all and zijun li is the future and not any Russian! Performing to fullest potential means skating like li and dealing with pressure and or pushing yourself. So If thats there fullest potential their careers are not going to be impressive in seniors.

  7. #82
    Custom Title LRK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,962
    "Extreme messes"? Don't you think you're being a bit... well, how shall I put it?... extreme? Also a Doom Merchant. Reminds me of this, actually:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RIgs3eygo

  8. #83
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,672
    Certainly when you have skates like kostners 2009 worlds free skate calling the Russians extreme messes may be excessive but like how about compared to zijun li or Gracie gold or their own euros performances.

  9. #84
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    311
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Fullest potential and clean is what I was talking about. I don't think fullest potential means the extreme messes that sotnikova and tuktamisheva displayed! Sotnikova can not leave out a three jump combo and Liza not do a 3/3 and be at their fullest! Euros was closer to their fullest. Maybe instead of too much pressure that they couldn't handle worlds there wasnt enough! Well if they were at their fullest potential and barely made the top 10 they are the not that good at all and zijun li is the future and not any Russian! Performing to fullest potential means skating like li and dealing with pressure and or pushing yourself. So If thats there fullest potential their careers are not going to be impressive in seniors.
    Whether their coaches put pressure on them or not, the skaters feel pressure. The skaters put pressure on themselves, they practice for hundreds of hours, and then have seven minutes (SP+FS) to succeed or bomb, before worldwide TV. Its not always the best skater that wins, but the one who handles pressure the best. Yuna appears totally unaffected by the pressure, and she is one of very few. Agree with Chuckm on this.

  10. #85
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,672
    Quote Originally Posted by b-man View Post
    Whether their coaches put pressure on them or not, the skaters feel pressure. The skaters put pressure on themselves, they practice for hundreds of hours, and then have seven minutes (SP+FS) to succeed or bomb, before worldwide TV. Its not always the best skater that wins, but the one who handles pressure the best. Yuna appears totally unaffected by the pressure, and she is one of very few. Agree with Chuckm on this.
    So both Liza and Adelina need to learn to skate to their fullest potential which means also dealing with pressure if indeed that was both of their problems. Their performances at worlds lacked things they could do and have done like 3/3 for one and a three jump combo for another. When they do everything they can do that is their full potential. Sports psychologists are designed for this mission. They both may need help in finding their inner zijun li's or Gracie golds.

  11. #86
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    919
    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    So both Liza and Adelina need to learn to skate to their fullest potential which means also dealing with pressure if indeed that was both of their problems. Their performances at worlds lacked things they could do and have done like 3/3 for one and a three jump combo for another. When they do everything they can do that is their full potential. Sports psychologists are designed for this mission. They both may need help in finding their inner zijun li's or Gracie golds.
    May I point out that all of those girls, Liza, Adelina, Gracie and Kaetlyn had all within this last season some great results and some not so great. They all were affected by the pressure at some competitions. Liza and Adelina had great Europeans, but unfortunately the pressure got to them at Worlds. I am not surprised - the pressure to keep three spots for Olympics in their home country must have been huge, when they know that the third skater (Leonova) was not going to help with keeping the spots. Gracie did not skate to her potential at one GP event, finishing 7th, also at 4CC finishing 6th and at US nationals SP, but she has done great job at worlds. Kaetlyn did not skate well at 4CC and her FS at worlds also wasn't that great in comparison to what she could potentially skate. In my view, all four girls are pretty comparable with their results and drawing conclusion that both Russians are not living up to their potential and that they are easily beatable, based on one messed up competition, is not fair. And suggesting a sport psychologist for Adelina and Liza - well, maybe suggest the same for Kaetlyn and Gracie then too, because they did have their share of less successful competition within the season too.

  12. #87
    Miserere Nobis
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas Darling
    Posts
    1,529
    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    May I point out that all of those girls, Liza, Adelina, Gracie and Kaetlyn had all within this last season some great results and some not so great. They all were affected by the pressure at some competitions. Liza and Adelina had great Europeans, but unfortunately the pressure got to them at Worlds. I am not surprised - the pressure to keep three spots for Olympics in their home country must have been huge, when they know that the third skater (Leonova) was not going to help with keeping the spots. Gracie did not skate to her potential at one GP event, finishing 7th, also at 4CC finishing 6th and at US nationals SP, but she has done great job at worlds. Kaetlyn did not skate well at 4CC and her FS at worlds also wasn't that great in comparison to what she could potentially skate. In my view, all four girls are pretty comparable with their results and drawing conclusion that both Russians are not living up to their potential and that they are easily beatable, based on one messed up competition, is not fair. And suggesting a sport psychologist for Adelina and Liza - well, maybe suggest the same for Kaetlyn and Gracie then too, because they did have their share of less successful competition within the season too.
    There's no shame in utilizing the assistance of a sports psychologist--getting professional help to find the appropriate competitive mindset is becoming increasingly popular among world-class athletes like Misty May Treanor, Kerri Walsh-Jennings, slews of elite football and basketball players.

    And Gracie DOES have a sports psychologist, who was part of the reason why she bounced back so quickly from Skate Canada to place second at the Rostelecom Cup.

  13. #88
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,555
    Carolina Kostner has always been a skater who knew how to pace her season. She usually did not skate that well in the GP, but consistently medaled at Euros and often at Worlds, too.

    Skaters need to peak at the right time. Osmond skated great in her first two international events, and her peak performance came at the Challenge in December. Nationals was good, but not as good as Challenge. Kaetlyn should probably have been sent to another B International in November instead of waiting for a second GP invitation which never came. She had had zero pressure in her home country events, so wasn't quite prepared for skating at 4CC in Japan against some tough competition. Soon after, she had to face even tougher competition at Worlds. This time, the home country crowd was more of a liability than a help.

    Liza and Adelina did well to medal in the GP and Liza made it to the GPF but didn't skate well there. Both medaled at Nationals and at Euros, which is where they peaked: too soon. There was minimal pressure at Euros since in the absence of Korpi, Kostner was their only competition. Worlds was an anticlimax for them, and they succumbed to the pressure there.

    Wagner shone in her GP events but became unglued at the GPF and was sick at Nationals. She skipped 4CC to recuperate and Worlds was a step up from the GPF but she was not at her peak. In 2011-2012, she peaked just a little too soon, at 4CC. The Olympic season is going to be tougher, and she has to learn not to spend herself too early.

    Gracie Gold fumbled her first GP event, and did better at her second, winning a silver medal, but she was far from perfect. At Nationals, she flubbed her SP and was in 9th place; she learned a valuable lesson there in that she came back to win the FS and a trip to Worlds. At 4CC, she did an OK SP but struggled in the FS, and was 6th overall. At Worlds, another SP bobble put her in 9th place. This time she collected herself and skated a great FS, landing all 7 jumps. She had peaked at the right time and at the same time had learned to deal with pressure.

  14. #89
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,555
    Here's an amended list of GP 'guarantees' after Worlds 2013 data and the last International Bs of the season. I have edited World Ranking lists to remove 2010-2011 points and reduce 2011-2012 points to 70% of their value. Additions / deletions due to International B results are in ITALIC.

    Top 12 at Worlds are guaranteed two GP events each. * = Seed
    * Yuna KIM
    * Carolina KOSTNER
    * Mao ASADA
    * Kanako MURAKAMI
    * Ashley WAGNER
    * Gracie GOLD
    Zijun LI
    Kaetlyn OSMOND
    Adelina SOTNIKOVA
    Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA
    Mae Berenice MEITE
    Akiko SUZUKI

    The top 24 on World Rankings and/or Seasons Best Lists are guaranteed at least one GP event each.
    The lists below do not include the top 12 at Worlds 2013

    Top 24 World Rankings AND Seasons Best:
    Julia LIPNITSKAIA
    Kiira KORPI
    Mirai NAGASU
    Christina GAO
    Valentina MARCHEI
    Agnes ZAWADZKI
    Elene GEDEVANISHVILI

    Top 24 World Rankings only:
    Viktoria HELGESSON
    Alena LEONOVA
    Joshi HELGESSON
    Amelie LACOSTE
    Haruka IMAI - Gardena Spring Trophy silver, bumped Elena GLEBOVA from top 24
    Polina KOROBEYNIKOVA


    Top 24 Seasons Best only (some of these may be on JGP):
    Angela WANG
    Satoko MIYAHARA
    Elena RADIONOVA
    Hannah MILLER
    Anna POGORILAYA

    Possible RETURNING SKATERS who have previously finished top 6 at Worlds; can get 2 GP events:
    Alissa CZISNY
    Miki ANDO - according to JSF, won't compete in GP

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •