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Thread: 2013 Triglav Trophy ( March 27-31)

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Elena RADIONOVA RUS 110.43 2lz-3t , 3f-1l-3s fall ?, 2a miss combo 3t
    According to protocol, she didn't fall, she received -GOE which probably means a bad landing. Also, she didn't miss any combos, she has planned two solo 2A which she landed cleanly and her last jumping pass was 3Loop-2T.
    Govsiani's score would be higher if she didn't completely missed one element: the 2A. She didn't even attempted the 2A in the LP and she only did 11 elements.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Most coaches have a few students, you know.

    Though a back problem has been my suspicion with Artur for most of the season.
    Wasn't a back injury of sorts cited as being one of many issues Artur was dealing with last season? I wanna say it was related to his growthspurt or training quad loops or something. Pretty sure the back has been bothering him for awhile though, so if he's still being hampered by that, it's good he's landing most of the jumps at least, the GOE will probably be better once his body is fully healthy, also, this is a strange time to be competing in the season for someone like Gatchinski who has been in off-season since Nationals in December, so while the score isn't great, considering the point he's probably at in his training now, getting new programs and everything, this performance and jumps landed are actually fairly encouraging.

    I like Petrov a lot, he is very talented, I think he can go farther in the future than Samarin, who is also quite good but seems stiffer with smaller jumps compared to Petrov who is even younger and smaller. It will be interesting to see them develop in the coming years.

    As for Gosviani, it seems to me she's actually been skating pretty well this season? Of course her PCS are going to be low because she is virtually unknown but her jumps have been pretty strong for the most part at all her competitions starting with Russian Nats. Her 3f-3t is especially nice...Leonova cannot jump that combo and her scores at Worlds were barely higher and only because of inflated PCS marks and Worlds being scored quite generously overall...Nikol deserved to go IMO. Hope she gets COR or some other GP next season.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Wasn't a back injury of sorts cited as being one of many issues Artur was dealing with last season? I wanna say it was related to his growthspurt or training quad loops or something.
    I don't think his back has ever been officially cited as a problem for him, though looking at the way his donut spin has deteriorated it wouldn't surprise me if it was. His back was my initial suspicion when the numbness in his legs became a problem, but apparently he has developed flat feet and they were having trouble fitting boots to him properly. At least, that's how I understood it from Mishin's explanations.

    Here is a piece on Slovenian TV about the comp, with Artur and Mishin speaking in English and some footage in the background of Artur's FS. I am quite happy. The quad looks just like his quads used to look.

    http://tvslo.si/predvajaj/pred-ekipn...va2.162665631/

    I think Mishin echoes everyone's thoughts when he says that he hopes the selections next season will be objective.

  4. #49
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    I think Gatchinski has a good shot at getting COR over Voronov. Fed does not seem too hot on Voronov right now, he placed behind Gatchinski at Worlds last season despite jumping much better - his PCS were just really low, then he had a bit of a meltdown in the FS at this past Euros, he was good at Russian Nats this season but that's about it. Gatchinski sometimes gets low PCS too, but it can also be quite high, and obviously his score ceiling is much higher than Voronov's, and his floor I don't think is any lower, and Gatchinski is younger. So I could definitely see COR being Menshov, Kovtun, and Gatchinski, and then Artur could maybe even get another event as a substitute or initial invite even. I think it might be hard for him to get 2 GP events this upcoming season but I really don't worry about him not getting any. If he gets 1 it's likely he'd just be sent to a few senior Bs as well which will also help with the experience and WS.

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    Voronov finished ahead of Gachinski at Worlds 2012, IIRC. And they must be okay with him because he was 2nd at Nats, with quite a score.

    Either way, I guess we'll have to wait til June 1 to find out. Hopefully Artur gets at least one, though I wouldn't complain if it meant he could save his strength for the important competitions. Plushenko of course is the favourite for Sochi; but if his body fails, it's going to be one heck of a fight for the right to go instead.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post

    I like Petrov a lot, he is very talented, I think he can go farther in the future than Samarin, who is also quite good but seems stiffer with smaller jumps compared to Petrov who is even younger and smaller. It will be interesting to see them develop in the coming years.
    Samarin does not have smaller jumps, his only problem is he still has no 3A
    but only a year separates him(14) and Petrov (13), I think he can still work on a year
    for the 3A in JGP season

    that is typical Gosviyani skating, she is historically a terrible FS

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post

    that is typical Gosviyani skating, she is historically a terrible FS
    What a terrible, terrible skate from Gosviani! She landed only six triples including 3F-3T with positive GOE! How dare she not land seven triples! What a mess! Typical Gosviani!

    sky_fly20, when you decide to bash someone, it would help if were at least objective. At least sometimes, occasionally. Otherwise other posters may stop taking your posts seriously...

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    sky_fly20, when you decide to bash someone, it would help if were at least objective. At least sometimes, occasionally. Otherwise other posters may stop taking your posts seriously...
    You ever did? The first post I saw from this person after joining was calling for Gachinski to retire. Hard to take anyone seriously when they're doing that.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    What a terrible, terrible skate from Gosviani! She landed only six triples including 3F-3T with positive GOE! How dare she not land seven triples! What a mess! Typical Gosviani!

    sky_fly20, when you decide to bash someone, it would help if were at least objective. At least sometimes, occasionally. Otherwise other posters may stop taking your posts seriously...
    I have followed Gosviani for many years , even alexrus will tell you she is not good in FS
    she really isn't that great as you make it out rarely can she even crack a 100+ FS
    that is why the Rus Fed didnt send her to Worlds once Leonova won at Russian Cup even with Leonova's inflation
    at GP Gosviyani could end up with the scores of Biryukova, Shelepen in high 120 - to mid 140 scores

    Gosviyani is a B skater like Gerasimova, Agafonova, Titushkina, Stavitskaia etc. very inconsistent
    she has lost to almost all internal competitions to the likes of Sakhanovich, Medvedeva and Sotskova

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    I have followed Gosviani for many years , even alexrus will tell you she is not good in FS she really isn't that great as you make it out rarely can she even crack a 100+ FS
    that is why the Rus Fed didnt send her to Worlds once Leonova won at Russian Cup even with Leonova's inflation
    at GP Gosviyani could end up with the scores of Biryukova, Shelepen in high 120 - to mid 140 scores

    Gosviyani is a B skater like Gerasimova, Agafonova, Titushkina, Stavitskaia etc. very inconsistent
    she has lost to almost all internal competitions to the likes of Sakhanovich, Medvedeva and Sotskova
    We are not talking about how she skates usually. We are talking about how she skates this year and about you having a need to bash her even if she did reasonably decent job. Having six triples in her FS is really not such failure as you made it sound. But then you probably suffer from a very low self confidence and need to increase your own self confidence by bashing people who can do something...

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    We are not talking about how she skates usually. We are talking about how she skates this year and about you having a need to bash her even if she did reasonably decent job. Having six triples in her FS is really not such failure as you made it sound. But then you probably suffer from a very low self confidence and need to increase your own self confidence by bashing people who can do something...
    This season (2nd half) Gosviani skates better.

    Her FS this season:
    OpenMoscow - 2 triples (and 1A), one fall.
    Russian Cup I - 3 triples plus one downgraded triple, two falls.
    Federation Cup - 5 triples (one of them URed).
    Russian Cup III - 5 triples (and 1A).
    Russian Cup IV - 5 triples (and 1A, and axel with no score).
    Russian Cup V - 5 triples (and axel with no score).
    Nationals - 7 triples, but no combo of three jumps (all three combos of two), only one 2A (it is not a mistake but indicates that jumping content is not complicated enough).
    Nestle Nesquik Cup 2013 - 6 triples (and 1A, and 1T, only one Axel jump), only two combos 2 jumps each.
    Euro - 6 triples (and 1A, and 2Lz instead of 3Lz, only one Axel jump), only two combos 2 jumps each.
    Russian Cup Final - 7 triples, two URed triples, one downgraded double jump, 1A (only one Axel jump), no combo of three jumps (all three combos of two).
    Triglav Trophy 2013 - 6 triples, 2S instead of 3S, one fall, no Axel-type jump (6 jump elements in program), no combo of three jumps (all three combos of two).

    We see that her jumps become better, but we don't see any FS with all clean jumps. Even best in this aspect Nationals had some problems.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    This season (2nd half) Gosviani skates better.

    Her FS this season:
    OpenMoscow - 2 triples (and 1A), one fall.
    Russian Cup I - 3 triples plus one downgraded triple, two falls.
    Federation Cup - 5 triples (one of them URed).
    Russian Cup III - 5 triples (and 1A).
    Russian Cup IV - 5 triples (and 1A, and axel with no score).
    Russian Cup V - 5 triples (and axel with no score).
    Nationals - 7 triples, but no combo of three jumps (all three combos of two), only one 2A (it is not a mistake but indicates that jumping content is not complicated enough).
    Nestle Nesquik Cup 2013 - 6 triples (and 1A, and 1T, only one Axel jump), only two combos 2 jumps each.
    Euro - 6 triples (and 1A, and 2Lz instead of 3Lz, only one Axel jump), only two combos 2 jumps each.
    Russian Cup Final - 7 triples, two URed triples, one downgraded double jump, 1A (only one Axel jump), no combo of three jumps (all three combos of two).
    Triglav Trophy 2013 - 6 triples, 2S instead of 3S, one fall, no Axel-type jump (6 jump elements in program), no combo of three jumps (all three combos of two).

    We see that her jumps become better, but we don't see any FS with all clean jumps. Even best in this aspect Nationals had some problems.
    Actually, the highlighted proves that she is reasonably consistent!

    I wouldn't worry that we don't see from her any FS with all clean jumps. If you noticed, completely clean FS at this year's worlds has been delivered by less than handful of ladies and men, so why such expectations from Gosviani? Why should Gosviani be perfect? Unless she is Yu-Na Kim (which she isn't), she won't be delivering completely clean FS. Just accept it and live with it. Nearly no one can deliver that, and if they manage to do so, it is more like an accident. Look at the men's worlds champion - also did not deliver clean FS. I still insist that FS with 6 triples is decent. Alright, she did have one fall, skipped one axel and doubled one jump, but it is not about what she didn't do and could have done. It is about what she actually did, and there is plenty of positive in what she did, for example triple flip-triple toe combination with positive GOE. OK, maybe she won't ever go to another Europeans or Worlds because I do agree that Sotnikova/Tuktamysheva/Lipnitskaya/Radionova are better, but that's not a reason to rubbish a decent skater. And this season she has been skating pretty well.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I wouldn't worry that we don't see from her any FS with all clean jumps. If you noticed, completely clean FS at this year's worlds has been delivered by less than handful of ladies and men, so why such expectations from Gosviani?
    Not only Yuna Kim (who has a problem - no 3Lo).
    Radionova almost always has clean FS.
    Lipnitskaia all past season had clean both SP and FS.
    Pogorilaya had 7 triples and two 2A at JGP Germany, JGP Final, both Senior and Junior Nationals.

    Gosviani is closer to Gerasimova or Stavitskaia, who also have not clean FS.

    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I do agree that Sotnikova/Tuktamysheva/Lipnitskaya/Radionova are better
    And Pogorilaya.

    Sotnikova/Tuktamysheva/Lipnitskaia/Pogorilaya - these four will be next season age eligible to Senior ISU Champinoships.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post
    Not only Yuna Kim (who has a problem - no 3Lo).
    Radionova almost always has clean FS.
    Lipnitskaia all past season had clean both SP and FS.
    Pogorilaya had 7 triples and two 2A at JGP Germany, JGP Final, both Senior and Junior Nationals.

    Gosviani is closer to Gerasimova or Stavitskaia, who also have not clean FS.
    Lipnitskaya didn't have all past season clean both SP and FS. She doubled jump in her FS at junior worlds. It cost her gold medal. She also made a bit of mess at Russian junior nationals, so I don't think it is a very good example you gave me of someone consistently 'being consistently clean'.

    Pogorilaya may have been delivering 7 triples and two 2A FS the whole season, but if you look at her performance at junior worlds, it wasn't very impressive. Most of the landings were not clean. Stepping forward, landing on both feet, or holding for dear life on the landing edge...also not perfect.

    As you see, no one is perfect. No one can be consistently clean. Perfection in skating doesn't exist; no matter how well you jump your jumps, there will always be something that could have been tiny bit better. Jump, even when landed clean, could have been higher, or cover further distance, there is always room for improvement; no matter who is skating.

    Besides, as I wrote above, I am not disputing that Sotnikova/ Tuktamysheva/ Lipnitskaya/Radionova are better than Gosviani. But neither Sotnikova nor Tuktamysheva managed to do consistently clean FS through the whole season, so why do you have such expectations from Gosviani?

    Have you noticed that all examples of skaters that are (in your opinion) consistent, have been senior ineligible? Have you also noticed that both Adelina and Liza used to be very consistent as juniors (the year when Adelina won everything at the junior level) but that it obviously is not as easy to be consistent on senior level when you are 16 and your body keeps changing. Gosviani is 16 too. Do you want to give me an example of any senior eligible lady who has been consistent with their FS the whole season? I don't think you will be very successful in finding one. I am curious how puberty will temporarily play havoc with Radionova and Lipnitskaya's consistency, but I can bet that they won't be as consistent within next 2 years. Lipnitskaya already mentioned it in one of her interviews, that she started struggling with balance due to puberty.

    And your sentence that Gosviani is closer to Gerasimova, so what? Gerasimova managed to medal at JGP. Not bad at all. She placed 11th out of 152 skaters who took part in JGP. Because you have better ladies at the moment, you consider her as a 'B' skater, but I remember time (not that long time ago) when Russia would be more than happy have someone like that as your national champion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexRus View Post

    And Pogorilaya.
    I disagree. I don't think Pogorilaya is better than Gosviani. Pogorilaya skates a bit like Shelepen. (Shelepen from the past, not injured Shelepen this season). Pogorilaya is consistent, very talented jumper, but there is not much else except of the jumps. There is no presentation at all. There may be temporary problem with the jumps due to puberty within a year or two and then there won't be anything left to look at, whereas Gosviani has a very nice presentation and even if some of her jumps fail her, she is watchable.

    If you look at PCS of all newcomers, Adelina, Liza, Julia and Nicol has been receiving quite low PCS at first. Can you imagine the PCS Pogorilaya will be receiving if she skates the same way she did at junior worlds? I think her first season as senior may not be very pretty unless she becomes more tidy during the summer.

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