Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5
Results 61 to 72 of 72

Thread: 2013 Triglav Trophy ( March 27-31)

  1. #61
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Texas, United States
    Posts
    4,971
    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Voronov finished ahead of Gachinski at Worlds 2012, IIRC. And they must be okay with him because he was 2nd at Nats, with quite a score.

    Either way, I guess we'll have to wait til June 1 to find out. Hopefully Artur gets at least one, though I wouldn't complain if it meant he could save his strength for the important competitions. Plushenko of course is the favourite for Sochi; but if his body fails, it's going to be one heck of a fight for the right to go instead.
    You're right, but he was 17th to Gatchinski's 18th so not much a difference there, and that was with Voronov skating near his best. There is a chance Kovtun and/or Menshov could get 2 GPs without needing COR anyways as they both have had good seasons. Nationals was a bit of a fluke for Voronov IMO and he'd never get PCS like that internationally, and internationally he hasn't skated very well this season anyways. Gatchinski has much more potential. I don't see Voronov getting favored over him if it comes down to those two.

  2. #62
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,378
    a 210 score in men's would put Gachinski at the bottom the results in a GP men
    he can hope for 1 GP but 2 GPs is very unlikely.

  3. #63
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    3,125
    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    a 210 score in men's would put Gachinski at the bottom the results in a GP men
    he can hope for 1 GP but 2 GPs is very unlikely.
    Did anyone say that he was guaranteed 2 GPs? Did anyone say a 210 would put him on top of the world? Heck, a 210 would have given him only bronze at JUNIOR Worlds. We all know it. But it's better than he's skated in a long time so we can be happy for him in that regard.

  4. #64
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    1,869
    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I disagree. I don't think Pogorilaya is better than Gosviani.
    See three seasons.

    2010/2011.
    Pogorilaya after lost season 2009/2010 (when she did not compete at all on medical reasons) qualified to JrNats (15 place).
    Gosviani did not qualify to any Nationals.

    2011/2012.
    Pogorilaya qualiied to JrNats (13 place), and Nats Elder Age (3 place), qualified to National Team.
    Gosviani did non qualify to any Nationals and did non qualify to National Team.

    2012/2013.
    They competed twice - OpenMoscow and SrNats (they newer took place both in same competition before this season).
    Both times Pogorilaya won (both in SP and FS), including SrNats, where Gosviani had best skating of season.
    At Internationals Pogorilaya 3 times of 4 had better score, than Gosviani at Euro or Triglav Trophy (Gosviani's best International score).
    Worst Pogorilaya's International score (JGP Croatia) is better than worst Gosviani's International score (Nestle Nesquik Cup 2013).

    You see what judges think (both in Russia and International).

    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    but there is not much else except of the jumps.
    Pogorilaya's spins are good.

    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    There is no presentation at all.
    Yes, juniorish skating.
    Pogorilaya is one and half year younger than Gosviani.
    She (and her coach and choreographer) work hard on skating skills and presentation. May be, we will see result in future.

    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    There may be temporary problem with the jumps due to puberty within a year or two
    They are. Pogorilaya became taller about 7 cm (3 inches) in this season, she lost jump stability and restored it in season, between competitions (she did not compete about 2 months between last JGP Event and JGP Fial).
    Result - she added 3Lz+3T combo (first landed in competition at JGP Final, SP).

  5. #65
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    946
    At the moment you are comparing incomparable. Pogorilaya skated at the junior level and therefore the skill to present the program wasn't expected as much of her. She outjumped the majority of her competitors and it was enough to win. But that won't work at seniors. I don't think she is going to get the same marks when skating as seniors.

    And what you called juniorish skating - I think it is worse than that. When I hear that someone skate juniorish, I imagine that they don't have the coverage or speed. I don't think that's her problem. She is just extremely untidy with her body - like if she doesn't know what to do with her legs and arms. Considering how harshly Adelina and Liza were marked on the second mark during their first senior GP season (and Adelina has pretty good skating skills), I am really curious how low they will give Anna her second mark.

  6. #66
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    1,869
    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    At the moment you are comparing incomparable. Pogorilaya skated at the junior level
    They both skated at the junior level at OpenMoscow.
    They both skated at the senior level at SrNationals.
    They both skated at the junior level when had their worst international results - JGP Croatia and Nestle Nesquik Cup.

  7. #67
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,378
    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    Did anyone say that he was guaranteed 2 GPs? Did anyone say a 210 would put him on top of the world? Heck, a 210 would have given him only bronze at JUNIOR Worlds. We all know it. But it's better than he's skated in a long time so we can be happy for him in that regard.
    happy for a 210 mark , Russian men was already in big trouble when they were pending their hopes on Gachinski

    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    At the moment you are comparing incomparable. Pogorilaya skated at the junior level and therefore the skill to present the program wasn't expected as much of her. She outjumped the majority of her competitors and it was enough to win. But that won't work at seniors. I don't think she is going to get the same marks when skating as seniors.
    Pogorilaya and Gosviani are equal in their presentation
    but Pogorilaya wins on technical merits

  8. #68
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    946
    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Pogorilaya and Gosviani are equal in their presentation
    but Pogorilaya wins on technical merits
    Surely you are joking? Are you going to compare the classical balletic style of Gosviani with the untidy messy presentation of Pogorilaya? Pogorilaya definitely wins on jumps; She is a very talented jumper. But if Gosviani skate a FS with six triples, the difference in technical mark will be compensated by Gosviani's presentation. Look how Shelepen was marked when she went to seniors - she had a program with all those triples (I think she had two different triple-triple combinations) and very low total marks... At senior level the judges are very keen that they don't let win someone who has only jumps and no presentation... Tuktamysheva in her first year at GPF had all her jumps but 10 points lower PCS than Kostner. I know that Kostner's skating skills are great, but 10 points loss on PCS makes up for any amount of jumps Pogorilaya may land.

  9. #69
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,378
    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Surely you are joking? Are you going to compare the classical balletic style of Gosviani with the untidy messy presentation of Pogorilaya? Pogorilaya definitely wins on jumps; She is a very talented jumper. But if Gosviani skate a FS with six triples, the difference in technical mark will be compensated by Gosviani's presentation.
    you make it sound like Gosvani is definition of balletic PCS worthy merit , she isn't she can score no more than the same pcs as Polina K. did
    yes Pogorilaya is like Shelepen but so is Gosviyani or more like Biryukova.

  10. #70
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    946
    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    you make it sound like Gosvani is definition of balletic PCS worthy merit , she isn't she can score no more than the same pcs as Polina K. did
    yes Pogorilaya is like Shelepen but so is Gosviyani or more like Biryukova.
    Gosviani is definitely not like Polina Shelepen. But yes, with her style she can be a bit like Biryukova or Polina K. I don't think it is anything to be ashamed of, so I am not sure what your point is. Though this season she jumps better than them.

  11. #71
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Texas, United States
    Posts
    4,971
    Shelepen scored badly in senior competition because she made loads of mistakes and her jumps were messy and usually under-rotated. Had she skated like she had been last season I bet she would have scored well.

    Pogorilaya is not that bad in terms of PCS. Her speed is actually quite good, she's one of the fastest across the ice compared to other junior ladies, using her long legs to good use. Her basics and edges are also strong. Sloppy? Okay I can agree there but that is just because she is in the middle of her growthspurt, her body is very much legs and arms so the presentation is always going to look ungainly until she grows into her body more. Her actual presentation is not sloppy, and I thought the choreo in her SP was quite good and that she is very expressive and confident in that program, as well as her gala programs. Nikol has already gone through her growth spurt and is a year and a half older than Anna - of course she will seem more mature, and her movements will look less awkward, but that really doesn't have much to do with the skating. Nikol is talented too and I like her presentation but I see why some say that in Russia, it might be hard for her to break through with her current content.

    As for Anna, typically, junior skaters who are in the top echelon (which Pogorilaya is) score higher in PCS at senior competitions compared to junior competitions. At Russian Nationals, Anna scored 176 and that was not even skating her best, 5 points more than Nikol who did skate her best. At JGPF and JW Anna got component marks mostly in the 6s, usually, in juniors, you have to be quite a good skater to get component marks in the 6s and she did more than once, and that was even when she had a lot of messy landings at JW so obviously there is quality to her skating even if some people don't appreciate it. Plus Anna also grew considerably during the season, it's pretty obvious to see, and she skated better regardless of that, and started doing 3lz-3t in both programs, most of the time with success (she did it cleanly in SP+FS at JGPF, SP at Russian Nats, FS at Russian Junior Nats, and SP at JW).

    It sort of boggles me how some people do not think she is talented, I mean, she is 14, had no international experience, only 13th at Russian Junior Nationals, then gets sent to a JGP, medals, gets sent to another one, wins in a formidable fashion, makes the JGPF where she upgrades her content, wins bronze at that event where everyone except Keiser skated phenomenally, and is less than a point from silver, competes at Russian senior Nationals and is 5th, just a couple points from 4th, qualifies for JW at Junior Nats where she had arguably the worst skates of her season but is still the 3rd highest placing age eligible lady, then wins bronze at JW with a comfortable 6 point margin over the 4th place finisher - who is 5 years older, and that was with a FS that was far from her best. And in the middle of all this she is going through puberty and has no past experience to rely on. So how does that qualify as bad and having no chance for the future? That is very impressive in my book. She medaled at every international she went to this season, and landed 7 triples in her FS in 3 out of 4 of them, and a clean 3-3 in the SP at all of them (3lz-3t in the last 2).

    So, I know Radionova and Sotnikova were even more impressive in their first JGP seasons, and Tuktamysheva during her first GP season, but they were all prodigious talents since a young age, which is not the case with Anna, and none of them had grown yet when having such success and were just tiny little girls while Anna is very obviously in the middle of a major growthspurt and has already reached an adult height, and is still pulling out the 3lz-3t combos. We saw how things became harder for Adelina, Liza, and Julia once they started growing - no longer were they dominating everything in sight. So even though most of the medals were bronze not gold, I think this season overall was good for Anna. She may continue to fight through this transitional age and body changes for another season or two, but this season she already showed determination and ability to fight through it so I think there is hope for the future. Plus her jumps actually seem to be quite high and rotation has not been an issue thus far so that is also promising. The jumps may not be huge like Hicks or Sotnikova but guess what, those two rarely get credit for rotating their 3-3s anyways so it's not like the huge jumps are really helping that much anyways.

  12. #72
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    2,188
    Artur and Mishin's interviews are on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmyyNz3SHBI

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •