Stars Next JGP Season ? | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Stars Next JGP Season ?

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Well, Hanca, apparently the judges don't agree with you.

When Liza was a junior, her ice coverage was tiny even for a junior. Her coverage may be somewhat better now than it was back then, but she is skating senior now, and her ice coverage isn't what it should be at this level. That affects her SS score, and in turn all her PCS scores.

"Normal, average jumps" don't get high GOE---average is 0 GOE. Liza doesn't get much flowout on her jumps (part of her coverage problem) and that also keeps GOE low.

Well, I think the judges actually agree with me. Liza wasn't marked that low at Europeans! I agree that at worlds she had a bad competition, but if you look at her results throughout the last year, I think she is doing pretty well. Second year in row getting into GPF, winning the long program at Europeans (beating Carolina Kostner), finishing third at Europeans, what more would you expect from someone first season fully senior? Her personal best (and season best) is 188.85! Not bad at all!
 

skatel80

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Posters who have seen Liza skate live have commented on how small her jumps are and how limited her ice coverage is ---that's why her GOE is low. Her PCS scores are low for the same reason. Liza skated a clean FS, yet her PCS scores were lower than skaters who made mistakes (Sotnikova, Osmond, Gold, Suzuki). Liza's ice coverage was small when she was a junior, but the theory was that was because she was so tiny. However, she's grown quite a bit since then and there's been no improvement in her stroking and her ability to cover the entire ice surface, especially for the FS.

Um Ive seen her live and her jumps are big! I read that report saying she had small jumps aswell and I thought the person who said it must be watching someone else! you are right about the ice coverage though, it does need to improve but it has improved since last year.
Back on topic I think thataside from the russians who will surely dominate the jgp again, I think Edmunds will do quite well aswell as karen chen ( who I am very excited to see on the jgp :) )
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Posters who have seen Liza skate live have commented on how small her jumps are and how limited her ice coverage is ---that's why her GOE is low. Her PCS scores are low for the same reason. Liza skated a clean FS, yet her PCS scores were lower than skaters who made mistakes (Sotnikova, Osmond, Gold, Suzuki). Liza's ice coverage was small when she was a junior, but the theory was that was because she was so tiny. However, she's grown quite a bit since then and there's been no improvement in her stroking and her ability to cover the entire ice surface, especially for the FS.

what was it :unsure:

I don't know who those posters are, but I trust myself :biggrin:

I watched her live twice last year and her jumps are HUGE, they are high and take good ice coverage.
Her choreography is very complicated and this is the reason some people see less ice coverege. She was criticised for that a year before, so last summer she went to someone in Canada to get better LP, now blame Canada:laugh:

On a serious note, she had good programs, good choreography and good ice coverage.
You better watch her programs for yourself in HD on youtube, or whatever you write just doen't make sense at all. Its always good to have YOUR OWN OPINION!:p


Your post: someone told me..someone see something...not sure what, not sure who and when...BUT IT IS TRUE!:popcorn:
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Well, Hanca, apparently the judges don't agree with you.

When Liza was a junior, her ice coverage was tiny even for a junior. Her coverage may be somewhat better now than it was back then, but she is skating senior now, and her ice coverage isn't what it should be at this level. That affects her SS score, and in turn all her PCS scores.

"Normal, average jumps" don't get high GOE---average is 0 GOE. Liza doesn't get much flowout on her jumps (part of her coverage problem) and that also keeps GOE low.

:laugh::laugh:

Please get on youtube and whatch Liza's programs and don't write these none sense commetnts again.

That is ashamed on judges that they don't judge properly. Simple!:p
 

karne

in Emergency Backup Mode
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Country
Australia
I'll be interested to watch Liza's skating next season, when she's had a full off-season to train and work with her new body shape. It can't be easy at that level to have such a change. I was very impressed with what she achieved given how close to the season her body developed, and am looking forward to next year for her.
 

ffionhanathomas

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
I'll be interested to watch Liza's skating next season, when she's had a full off-season to train and work with her new body shape. It can't be easy at that level to have such a change. I was very impressed with what she achieved given how close to the season her body developed, and am looking forward to next year for her.

I agree! She did so well in comparison to other skaters in the past who have grown etc and lost so many of their jumps. Liza's remain to be great as always. I wonder how the triple axel is coming along?

In terms of ice coverage, is that their skating around the rink or how much ice their jumps cover? Its always confused me.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Eurosport guys always talk about how much elevation Liza gets on her jumps so I doubt they are that small. Anyways big jumps aren't always better anyways, yes Adelina has huge jumps but she can't rotate her 3lz-3t hardly ever and often struggles to even land it and that is not the case with Liza. Courtney Hicks is the same way. I'll take smaller jumps that are rotated to big sloppy ones that aren't any day.

As for her ice coverage, it's improved a lot but still needs to improve more. And Liza still is really tiny, is she even 5ft tall? Yes she filled out significantly this season but she is not much taller compared to last season and that is what would mostly help with ice coverage. For someone of her size her coverage does not seem that poor, just these days a lot of female skaters are fairly tall so if they have that advantage to begin with and then also skate faster and more freely, Tuk will stand out in comparison. But I don't think the coverage is as bad as some think, and her PCS were over 61 in the FS at Euros.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
But Tuk's PCS in the Worlds FS was 57.24. She won the FS at Euros and was on the podium, whereas she was 10th at Worlds. Her PCS scores in the GP/GPF FSs ranged from 53-57 even when she skated well.
 

hanca

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
But Tuk's PCS in the Worlds FS was 57.24. She won the FS at Euros and was on the podium, whereas she was 10th at Worlds. Her PCS scores in the GP/GPF FSs ranged from 53-57 even when she skated well.

And at the same time Tuktamysheva's PCS in FS at Europeans were 61.65. In comparison to PCS scores of Gracie Gold in FS at Worlds were 60.18 and Kaetlyn Osmond's PCS from FS at worlds 60.60. (I am using their strongest competition of the season). No point comparing someone's strongest competition with someone else's weakest one...)
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
The point is Europeans was a competition where the Russians and Kostner were the only top skaters, with Korpi out. When faced with a full card of competition, where ALL the top skaters were present, Tuk's PCS scores went back to where they had been all season, and that was with one of the two clean skates in the Worlds FS competition. Gracie and Kaetlyn did not skate clean, yet their PCS scores were well above Tuk's at Worlds.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
But Tuk's PCS in the Worlds FS was 57.24. She won the FS at Euros and was on the podium, whereas she was 10th at Worlds. Her PCS scores in the GP/GPF FSs ranged from 53-57 even when she skated well.

57 isn't that bad considering she skated in the 2nd warmup group, after Lafuente and McCorkell bombed, and Leonova, who the judges would have been willing to give a big PCS bump too, didn't skate well either. Had she been skating in the ultimate or penultimate warmup, I bet her PCS would have been a little higher, on par with Gold, Osmond, and Sotnikova. Start order usually effects PCS to a certain extent, I don't think Osmond was really overscored, or maybe just slightly, in the FS but skating in the final flight definitely helped her not fall farther in the standings than she did and helped her PCS too. Similarly, I thought her score in the SP could have been a little higher even (I thought she deserved to be above Kanako and Carolina honestly) but skating so early probably held back her marks a bit. Tuk's PCS aren't great, but with her technical side being as strong as it is, the PCS are not really going to prevent her from doing well as long as she jumps well. She more just does not have the luxury of making big mistakes and still getting huge scores like some others because her PCS aren't super high and do drop when she makes mistakes, unlike someone like Kiira, Carolina, Mao who have that cushion to fall back on.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Liza's PCS at WTT was 52 so she has a new low. She needs a help with PCS. From Skating Skills to Choreography to Performance. Osmond bombed badly and got 58. Look how horribly Liza is doing in PCS when she singles a jump and falls. It's atrociously awful in every way. For a brief second I thought Mae Berenice Maite beat her in PCS but Liza beat Maite by a point. If you are only beating Meite by a point and you are euro bronze medalist and winner of many free skates like in Euros and GPF you need help. This is awful and if she doesn't radically change every single thing about how the presents herself and skates she will be nowhere. Even against Maiete who will outdo her. This is among the worst things in skating right now her talent being ruined by an obviously judge repelling presentation as to where judges may prefer Maite.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Osmond didn't bomb that badly. She fell on a downgraded 3t and doubled the flip. That was a lot better than her Worlds FS, where she fell on two jumps. Osmond took a hit on PCS because she didn't skate with her usual zest. Only two judges gave her 8s in PCS, and we can guess which country one of them represented.

Liza gets low PCS scores because of her poor ice coverage; she has to nail all her jumps to get some 7s. IMO, Liza has a stamina problem and that limits her ice coverage. At WTT, her skating had an unfortunate lumbering quality which also is going to affect her PCS.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Osmond didn't bomb that badly. She fell on a downgraded 3t and doubled the flip. That was a lot better than her Worlds FS, where she fell on two jumps. Osmond took a hit on PCS because she didn't skate with her usual zest. Only two judges gave her 8s in PCS, and we can guess which country one of them represented.

Liza gets low PCS scores because of her poor ice coverage; she has to nail all her jumps to get some 7s. IMO, Liza has a stamina problem and that limits her ice coverage. At WTT, her skating had an unfortunate lumbering quality which also is going to affect her PCS.

Exactly to the second paragraph. Either she needs to find new coaches who can help her or she is actually trying to improve and failing miserably. Judges are ready to start giving her 4's and 5's.
 
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