Miki Ando | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Miki Ando

icedinn

wishing ksenia/kirill happiness 4ever
On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
People please lets try to stay on topic here.

Miki Ando? Nah, she aint coming back.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
How about looking at the judging panel that could also tell the "Tale" or look at the PCS history of Carolina "That" could also tell the tale.

There was no Italian judge on either panel.

SP: RSA TUR FIN GER GEO BUL ESP JPN EST
FS: BUL EST DEN ESP GER RSA GBR SUI GEO

and how about giving any current skater the 8 tripple layout of Asada that includes a 3A and 3-3, and on top of it change the choreography and placement of the elements one month before WC and see how any other skater would complete them. Mao hitting 7 triples is a huge testament to her pure skills and gutsiness and anyone who doesn't acknowledge that is only trying to fool themselves!

Except Mao didn't hit 7 triples:
3a-df, 3f-df<, 3ze, 3lo+2lo, 2a+3t, 3s, 3f+2lo<+2lo

She landed SIX triples, and only 3 received +GOE.

Kostner landed five triples, but all received +GOE

The only skaters to land 7 triples were Gracie Gold and Zijun Li.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
THIS. No one is denigying Carolina's skills I am not doing that. But this season Mao showed she can beat her even with out perfect programs. Mao's 4cc performace would have beat Carolina's European without a problem. Mao's world performace was only a few points away from silver. So, I dont see how Kostner is superior.

Neither Asada or Kostner is likely to skate cleanly so all this talk is futile anyway in a sense. The silver medal wont be who would win if both skate cleanly, since even skating cleanly will be miracle enough, and in that case it would surely be that person as the odds of both would be about the odds of a winning lottery ticket ; but by who makes fewer mistakes on the day which is impossible to predict. Both are close enough with Kostner's superior GOEs and PCS, and Asada's much higher base value, that they are close enough the one who makes even slightly more mistakes will surely lose the battle. The winner of the silver at the Games (assuming the most probable outcome that Kim wins gold, and both hold off all others for the remaining 2 medals) will be the one who makes fewer mistakes on the day, and that could easily be either one, but as I said (and you have to admit) recent history suggests Kostner is more consistent than Mao these days.
 

Jtsmith12

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Exactly, can we please keep this topic on Miki. So if I am understanding correctly, the only way the Japanese fed will send her to Sochi is if she wins nationals? Why? I think if she does comeback and puts her heart into her programs and shows everything she has, she could land on the podium and possibly even win it. She's not Fumie Suguri. she's a two time world champion.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
So if I am understanding correctly, the only way the Japanese fed will send her to Sochi is if she wins nationals? Why?

Pretty simple answer. The Japanese consider more than the results of Nationals when picking their teams, especialy Olympic teams. Lets not forget that is the ONLY reason Miki herself went to the last 2 Olympics, as she did not place in the top 3 at Nationals either year. This time having not competed in several years and the Japanese ladies who have producing good results things are the other way around. They even have an unofficial points system of sorts they consider (although there is some subjectivity involved too) that someone on another thread explained to me, but in essence Asada, Suzuki, and Murakami have been already buidling up the points with their performances from around the 2012 Worlds until now, while Miki has none, and she isnt even eligible for the grand prix (besides a possible host pick) but the JSF have said they wont send her to any internationals until she atleast skates at regionals.

To why they wouldnt be making any special compensations for her, I cant answer that unlike someone with inside information but my guesses would be:

1. Asada is their serious hope for a medal, and possibly a gold now. Not Miki.
2. Murakami is both their 2nd best hope and best known hope for the future after Sochi, having placed 4th at Worlds and steadily improving. She also would take priority over an old Miki at this stage.
3. They dont really care who the 3rd person is probably, but would probably prefer it to be an up and comer with potential. That way they have the perfect team, the top hope, the mix of a current hope and future prospect, and the future prospect. If that up and comer doesnt emerge who is ready, well it is a nice reward to Suzuki for skating the whole quad and helping the Japanese stay up there while Asada was struggling and Miki was absent.

Essentialy there isnt any reason to prioritize or make special provisions that go against their standard guidelines for her now.
 

Bartek

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Mao's fans have selective memory. Right after the SP, people were surprised Mao got such a high score. She was lucky to be in the final group, quite frankly.
There is no way she should beat Kostner when 2 programs are combined. Even if Kostner's was called for the UR in the SP, Mao should have been called on 3 other jumps.
If the caller was any stricter, maybe Ashley would have won bronze over Mao and Kanako.

The thing is, Kostner is a superior skater in all program components, and Kostner has true lutz, true flip, 3x3. Mao has an unstable 3A and an UR issue. As it stands, Mao is not capable of beating Kostner.
If both improves, Kostner would still come out ahead.

Which is more likely?
Kostner hitting 7 triples vs. Mao hitting 8 triples? I give the former 10% chance and the latter 1% chance. If you were a betting man, you would bet Kostner for silver.

Kostner's program is transitionless, Asada has a lot of them. Kostner has very easy choreography, Asada much more complex. Inrterpretation is very subjective but Asada's final footwork and choreographed sequence as well as the slow section perfectly interpret Swan Lake. Kostner stops to move her arms, torso and head in one spot on the ice. Asada performs her choreography while skating (spread eagles, balletic turns at the end). Kostner is superior ONLY in SS department but Asada isn't really weak in that area too. Asada's planned content is much more difficult than Kostner's. Had Kostner been rightfully called for under-rotation in SP Asada would've won silver. Asada's 3A's WERE fully rotated, get over it. Her 3F in SP was less underrotated than Kostner's second 3T. There is youtube with HD slow-motions where you can easily scrutinise the jumps. I'm not going to bother and provide such a biased ignorant with the links though.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
And only disrespectful people will insult someone just because I dont agree with you I am child that does not know how to add. And stop with your exagerations Carolina supirior in every component. Not interested in discussing with you. You make exagerations with no data to back them up

Because you can't add and made the same argument over and over when I gave explicit data to show how 2 mistakes != 2 mistakes. chuckm also gave the components score where Carolina is superior in every component.
That's not enough data for you?
Anyway, it's futile to argue with kids. I'm done with you.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Kostner's program is transitionless, Asada has a lot of them. Kostner has very easy choreography, Asada much more complex. Inrterpretation is very subjective but Asada's final footwork and choreographed sequence as well as the slow section perfectly interpret Swan Lake. Kostner stops to move her arms, torso and head in one spot on the ice. Asada performs her choreography while skating (spread eagles, balletic turns at the end). Kostner is superior ONLY in SS department but Asada isn't really weak in that area too. Asada's planned content is much more difficult than Kostner's.

Yeah, except she beat Mao in every single component. And has beaten Mao in every single component for the past 3 years. Imagine if she adds more transitions, she would blow Mao out of the water. Rightfully so.
 

mary01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
There was no Italian judge on either panel.

SP: RSA TUR FIN GER GEO BUL ESP JPN EST
FS: BUL EST DEN ESP GER RSA GBR SUI GEO



Except Mao didn't hit 7 triples:
3a-df, 3f-df<, 3ze, 3lo+2lo, 2a+3t, 3s, 3f+2lo<+2lo

She landed SIX triples, and only 3 received +GOE.

Kostner landed five triples, but all received +GOE

The only skaters to land 7 triples were Gracie Gold and Zijun Li.

No italian judge, but most of the panel consisted of European judges and who do think they favor?:rolleye:

The grade of execution can always be discussed, fact is that she landed 7 triples, whether you like it or not!
 

Moment

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Poor Miki. Lmao.

She should give it up tho. She was overscored and lucky to win 2011 Worlds when Yuna was not in her top form.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
No italian judge, but most of the panel consisted of European judges and who do think they favor?:rolleye:

The grade of execution can always be discussed, fact is that she landed 7 triples, whether you like it or not!

I guess according to you every skater not named Mao is overscored and Mao has never been overscored in her life. You even dispute that her NHK win this season was anything controversial. So if Kostner is such a pet of the European judges how come she didnt win a European title until Slutskaya retired, has even lost Europeans to run of the mill skaters like Lepisto and Meier, didnt medal at the rather poor 2010 Worlds even with a very good skate, and has only been given 1 World title by those so called predominantly pro European panels.

Also when someone stumbles and trips out of jumps and gets mostly -2s in GOE for how it was completed that isnt typically landing all those triples. I mean technically a skater could fall on 7 triples and you could say they landed 7 triples by that logic, after all they landed them on their rear ends, but they were still rotated and landed then right. :laugh:
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Because you can't add and made the same argument over and over when I gave explicit data to show how 2 mistakes != 2 mistakes. chuckm also gave the components score where Carolina is superior in every component.
That's not enough data for you?
Anyway, it's futile to argue with kids. I'm done with you.

Wow calling me a kid!! Good argument:thumbsup:
 

mary01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I guess according to you every skater not named Mao is overscored and Mao has never been overscored in her life. You even dispute that her NHK win this season was anything controversial. So if Kostner is such a pet of the European judges how come she didnt win a European title until Slutskaya retired, has even lost Europeans to run of the mill skaters like Lepisto and Meier, didnt medal at the rather poor 2010 Worlds even with a very good skate, and has only been given 1 World title by those so called predominantly pro European panels.

Also when someone stumbles and trips out of jumps and gets mostly -2s in GOE for how it was completed that isnt typically landing all those triples. I mean technically a skater could fall on 7 triples and you could say they landed 7 triples by that logic, after all they landed them on their rear ends, but they were still rotated and landed then right. :laugh:

keep to the topic would you, I wouldn't mind discussing worlds 2010 or slutskaya if those were the issues here, but they aren't so I will refrain from doing that now.

and as far as i remember I never said stated that every skater was/is overscored, don't try to put words in my mouth, that I never said:disapp:

as for your example it really doesn't make sense. you clearly seem to have missed the point that was made earlier.
 

minze

Medalist
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
The OP of this thread asked to keep the topic. Lets respect that. It is sad that some posters cant have a discussion without calling other posters names. sad
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Back on the topic, done or not, I like Miki and I appreciate her skating. Miki may have not been the most artistic skater, but I feel she has a career that many would be proud of. Two world championship titles (and I don't feel title two should be * because Yuna wasn't at her best or whatever), a world bronze, a 4CC gold and abronze and several GP medals, including a silver the GPF. In addition she's managed top 6 finishes in all six of her World Championship appearances (including top 4 placements at five of them).

She contributed to helping Japan keep three spots for several years (the exception being 2006 when she didn't compete and 2008 when she WD) and that counts for something too.
 

skatel80

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
I loved miki and always thought she was very underrated aside from the jumps which were explosive, her skating skills were lovely and when I saw her live at worlds in 09 I thought that she was actually quite artistic it was just a kind of introverted artistry which didnt come accross until I saw her live and of course that 4s :) but as much as I would love to see her come back I really dont see it happening..
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
2The article is one writers opinion, and writers logic is that Ando would be more positive about her chances after seeing Worlds this year simply because she beat Kim to win Worlds 2 years ago and Kim ended up dominating. This however is incredibly flawed considering:

1. Kim skated about 55% as well at Worlds 2 years ago in losing to Ando as she did at Worlds this year. That might even be generous. Furthermore Ando even at her peak of many years ago (probably 2006-2007) was never capable of skating at the level or even has skated at the level Kim showed in London.
2. How is seeing an event that shows the ladies level of skating has risen way back up after the post Olympic low it was at in 2011, something that would further encourage Ando to come back. If anything it would do the reverse.

As for talk about Miki getting the "3rd spot" it seems some people still need to be reminded as many of us in this thread already have done, that JSF themselves have said Miki has to WIN Nationals to make the Games. There is no 3rd spot option for her, due to their qualification format for the Games which is consistent with the one they have used the last few Olympiads, and gave Miki her own spot on the last 2 Olympic teams. She either comes back with a huge boom and wins Nationals, recemeting herself as Japanese #1 over Mao, or she doesnt go to the Games at all.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
As for talk about Miki getting the "3rd spot" it seems some people still need to be reminded as many of us in this thread already have done, that JSF themselves have said Miki has to WIN Nationals to make the Games. There is no 3rd spot option for her, due to their qualification format for the Games which is consistent with the one they have used the last few Olympiads, and gave Miki her own spot on the last 2 Olympic teams. She either comes back with a huge boom and wins Nationals, recemeting herself as Japanese #1 over Mao, or she doesnt go to the Games at all.

I know she doesnt have that GP seeds but if she did a couple of B/s, Japanese Fed could have her as the host pick
and I dont buy Ano needs to win Nationals if she shows in Great form early on from this coming Season she will have a chance
Akiko as at the near end of her shelf probably next year she will burnt out ala Leonova.
 
Top