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Thread: Miki Ando

  1. #31
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    Mao's fans have selective memory. Right after the SP, people were surprised Mao got such a high score. She was lucky to be in the final group, quite frankly.
    There is no way she should beat Kostner when 2 programs are combined. Even if Kostner's was called for the UR in the SP, Mao should have been called on 3 other jumps.
    If the caller was any stricter, maybe Ashley would have won bronze over Mao and Kanako.

    The thing is, Kostner is a superior skater in all program components, and Kostner has true lutz, true flip, 3x3. Mao has an unstable 3A and an UR issue. As it stands, Mao is not capable of beating Kostner.
    If both improves, Kostner would still come out ahead.

    Which is more likely?
    Kostner hitting 7 triples vs. Mao hitting 8 triples? I give the former 10% chance and the latter 1% chance. If you were a betting man, you would bet Kostner for silver.

  2. #32
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    I do agree still though it is close enough it could go the other way. Mao still could win the silver, and it isnt a lock for Kostner. For that matter I dont think Kim is totally assured the gold, although she is the clear favorite. I also do think there is an outside shot of someone else sneaking on the podium ahead of Kostner and/or Asada, with Asada the most vurnerable to being bumped just due to her incredibly difficult jump layout and the extreme risk of mistakes. I dont think it will be Murakami, Osmond, or Wagner though. If anyone does it would Gold, Li (I think her potential is amazing), or one of the Russians with a home ice boost if they improve alot in the off season. The only thing I believe is impossible if for someone not named Kostner or Asada, anyone who was 4th to 10th at Worlds this year, to finish over Kim. No chance of happening IMO, but anything else could happen, some things more likely than others.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Mao's fans have selective memory. Right after the SP, people were surprised Mao got such a high score. She was lucky to be in the final group, quite frankly.
    There is no way she should beat Kostner when 2 programs are combined. Even if Kostner's was called for the UR in the SP, Mao should have been called on 3 other jumps.
    If the caller was any stricter, maybe Ashley would have won bronze over Mao and Kanako.

    The thing is, Kostner is a superior skater in all program components, and Kostner has true lutz, true flip, 3x3. Mao has an unstable 3A and an UR issue. As it stands, Mao is not capable of beating Kostner.
    If both improves, Kostner would still come out ahead.

    Which is more likely?
    Kostner hitting 7 triples vs. Mao hitting 8 triples? I give the former 10% chance and the latter 1% chance. If you were a betting man, you would bet Kostner for silver.
    Did you see the free skate. Mao was almost 6 points ahead with two mistakes. No your assessment is not correct Carolina does not come ahead of Mao. No Carolina is not a superior skater.

  4. #34
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    I'm a betting person. Yuna, short of shooting herself in the foot big time, will be on the Sochi podium and likely in gold. I'm pretty sure Yuna is not going to shoot herself in the foot and screw up. Carolina will get a medal, Speedy/tech panel/judges will see to that, unlikely to be gold. That leaves one more podium spot. Mao could get it or be off the podium if she makes too many mistakes. My tea leaves say that Miki has "no chance" anymore.

    Miki, retire officially with dignity and grace--you had a great career particularly given your artistic limitations. Look up "Fumie Suguri" and beware. Time to explore the next chapter of life, and I think you already know that.

  5. #35
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    Kostner has tremendous speed, does not flutz or lip, is not a chronic underrotater, and when she makes a mistake she does not let it affect her performance. Asada flutzes and has a UR problem; if she makes a mistake early in the program it definitely affects her concentration and she skates cautiously. In her Worlds FS, when she URd the flip and couldn't do the 3t, that definitely affected her performance, and she didn't recover until the footwork.

    Look at the PCS scores: they tell the tale.
    70.69 8.96 8.46 8.79 8.93 9.04 Kostner
    68.41 8.61 8.21 8.61 8.64 8.68 Asada

    Kostner has the superior skating skills, no contest.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Kostner has tremendous speed, does not flutz or lip, is not a chronic underrotater, and when she makes a mistake she does not let it affect her performance. Asada flutzes and has a UR problem; if she makes a mistake early in the program it definitely affects her concentration and she skates cautiously. In her Worlds FS, when she URd the flip and couldn't do the 3t, that definitely affected her performance, and she didn't recover until the footwork.

    Look at the PCS scores: they tell the tale.
    70.69 8.96 8.46 8.79 8.93 9.04 Kostner
    68.41 8.61 8.21 8.61 8.64 8.68 Asada

    Kostner has the superior skating skills, no contest.
    How about looking at the judging panel that could also tell the "Tale" or look at the PCS history of Carolina "That" could also tell the tale.
    and how about giving any current skater the 8 tripple layout of Asada that includes a 3A and 3-3, and on top of it change the choreography and placement of the elements one month before WC and see how any other skater would complete them. Mao hitting 7 triples is a huge testament to her pure skills and gutsiness and anyone who doesn't acknowledge that is only trying to fool themselves!

  7. #37
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    How about looking at the judging panel that could also tell the "Tale" or look at the PCS history of Carolina "That" could also tell the tale.
    and how about giving any current skater the 8 tripple layout of Asada that includes a 3A and 3-3, and on top of it change the choreography and placement of the elements one month before WC and see how any other skater would complete them. Mao hitting 7 triples is a huge testament to her pure skills and gutsiness and anyone who doesn't acknowledge that is only trying to fool themselves!
    THIS. No one is denigying Carolina's skills I am not doing that. But this season Mao showed she can beat her even with out perfect programs. Mao's 4cc performace would have beat Carolina's European without a problem. Mao's world performace was only a few points away from silver. So, I dont see how Kostner is superior.

  8. #38
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    Everyone talks about Caro's superior skating skills but I think her jumps are great too. When done clean, they look amazing

    I'll probably get pelted with rocks for saying this but I think Mao needs better choreography. She's amazing at the fast intricate footwork but I think sometimes less is more, especaily when it really sticks out from the rest of the program.

    Kaetlyn Osmond is another who I think is doing a little too much and it shows in the way her jumps look even when landed. but i think she will get much better from here on out

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    Did you see the free skate. Mao was almost 6 points ahead with two mistakes. No your assessment is not correct Carolina does not come ahead of Mao. No Carolina is not a superior skater.
    Did you? She was 4 points ahead.

    Regardless, both made 2 mistakes.
    Salchow << and -1 for the fall net her - point.
    Popped the loop that got her .5.

    Mao's mistakes aren't as severe.
    URed the flip still got her 2.5 points.
    Edge call on the lutz still got her 5.3 points.

    Only children who can't add would say they made equally severe mistakes and Mao came out on top. Carolina is a superior skater in EVERY components. She made 2 serious mistakes that net her almost 0 points. Mao made 2 serious mistakes that net her almost 8 points and still ended up only 4 points ahead. Well, where did the other 4 points go?

  10. #40
    Custom Title Minze2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Did you? She was 4 points ahead.

    Regardless, both made 2 mistakes.
    Salchow << and -1 for the fall net her - point.
    Popped the loop that got her .5.

    Mao's mistakes aren't as severe.
    URed the flip still got her 2.5 points.
    Edge call on the lutz still got her 5.3 points.

    Only children who can't add would say they made equally severe mistakes and Mao came out on top. Carolina is a superior skater in EVERY components. She made 2 serious mistakes that net her almost 0 points. Mao made 2 serious mistakes that net her almost 8 points and still ended up only 4 points ahead. Well, where did the other 4 points go?
    And only disrespectful people will insult someone just because I dont agree with you I am child that does not know how to add. And stop with your exagerations Carolina supirior in every component. Not interested in discussing with you. You make exagerations with no data to back them up

  11. #41
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    People please lets try to stay on topic here.

    Miki Ando? Nah, she aint coming back.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    How about looking at the judging panel that could also tell the "Tale" or look at the PCS history of Carolina "That" could also tell the tale.
    There was no Italian judge on either panel.

    SP: RSA TUR FIN GER GEO BUL ESP JPN EST
    FS: BUL EST DEN ESP GER RSA GBR SUI GEO

    and how about giving any current skater the 8 tripple layout of Asada that includes a 3A and 3-3, and on top of it change the choreography and placement of the elements one month before WC and see how any other skater would complete them. Mao hitting 7 triples is a huge testament to her pure skills and gutsiness and anyone who doesn't acknowledge that is only trying to fool themselves!
    Except Mao didn't hit 7 triples:
    3a-df, 3f-df<, 3ze, 3lo+2lo, 2a+3t, 3s, 3f+2lo<+2lo

    She landed SIX triples, and only 3 received +GOE.

    Kostner landed five triples, but all received +GOE

    The only skaters to land 7 triples were Gracie Gold and Zijun Li.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minze2001 View Post
    THIS. No one is denigying Carolina's skills I am not doing that. But this season Mao showed she can beat her even with out perfect programs. Mao's 4cc performace would have beat Carolina's European without a problem. Mao's world performace was only a few points away from silver. So, I dont see how Kostner is superior.
    Neither Asada or Kostner is likely to skate cleanly so all this talk is futile anyway in a sense. The silver medal wont be who would win if both skate cleanly, since even skating cleanly will be miracle enough, and in that case it would surely be that person as the odds of both would be about the odds of a winning lottery ticket ; but by who makes fewer mistakes on the day which is impossible to predict. Both are close enough with Kostner's superior GOEs and PCS, and Asada's much higher base value, that they are close enough the one who makes even slightly more mistakes will surely lose the battle. The winner of the silver at the Games (assuming the most probable outcome that Kim wins gold, and both hold off all others for the remaining 2 medals) will be the one who makes fewer mistakes on the day, and that could easily be either one, but as I said (and you have to admit) recent history suggests Kostner is more consistent than Mao these days.

  14. #44
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    Exactly, can we please keep this topic on Miki. So if I am understanding correctly, the only way the Japanese fed will send her to Sochi is if she wins nationals? Why? I think if she does comeback and puts her heart into her programs and shows everything she has, she could land on the podium and possibly even win it. She's not Fumie Suguri. she's a two time world champion.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtsmith12 View Post
    So if I am understanding correctly, the only way the Japanese fed will send her to Sochi is if she wins nationals? Why?
    Pretty simple answer. The Japanese consider more than the results of Nationals when picking their teams, especialy Olympic teams. Lets not forget that is the ONLY reason Miki herself went to the last 2 Olympics, as she did not place in the top 3 at Nationals either year. This time having not competed in several years and the Japanese ladies who have producing good results things are the other way around. They even have an unofficial points system of sorts they consider (although there is some subjectivity involved too) that someone on another thread explained to me, but in essence Asada, Suzuki, and Murakami have been already buidling up the points with their performances from around the 2012 Worlds until now, while Miki has none, and she isnt even eligible for the grand prix (besides a possible host pick) but the JSF have said they wont send her to any internationals until she atleast skates at regionals.

    To why they wouldnt be making any special compensations for her, I cant answer that unlike someone with inside information but my guesses would be:

    1. Asada is their serious hope for a medal, and possibly a gold now. Not Miki.
    2. Murakami is both their 2nd best hope and best known hope for the future after Sochi, having placed 4th at Worlds and steadily improving. She also would take priority over an old Miki at this stage.
    3. They dont really care who the 3rd person is probably, but would probably prefer it to be an up and comer with potential. That way they have the perfect team, the top hope, the mix of a current hope and future prospect, and the future prospect. If that up and comer doesnt emerge who is ready, well it is a nice reward to Suzuki for skating the whole quad and helping the Japanese stay up there while Asada was struggling and Miki was absent.

    Essentialy there isnt any reason to prioritize or make special provisions that go against their standard guidelines for her now.

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