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Thread: Possible alternative nationalities in singles skating

  1. #91
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    Laney Diggs had finished 5th at Pacific Sectionals and was a last-minute substitute for Vanessa Lam (P1). Laney probably hadn't been practicing her programs much since Sectionals, since she assumed her season was over.

    But the competition at Sectionals is easier at the Senior level, believe it or not, than at the Junior and Novice levels. The top 5 Senior ladies from the previous Nationals don't have to do Sectionals, and several of the top 10 Seniors don't do Sectionals because they've been scheduled for GP or "B" internationals that conflict with Sectional dates, or made the JGPF. This year, these included the top 5 from 2012 Nats (Wagner, Zawadzki, Gao, Zhang) plus Gold, Nagasu, Wang and Miller.

    Pacific Sectionals was particularly weak this year---there was a big gap in ability after Lam and Hicks to Amanda Hofmann and Sophia Adams. Morgan Bell was the lowest-ranked lady from Midwest Sectionals.

    OTOH, all the Juniors except those who made the JGPF have to do Sectionals, and there are no byes for Novice ladies.

  2. #92
    EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA CaroLiza_fan's Avatar
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    So, with Polina S switching to Israel, and now Ksenia Makarova possibly switching to America, are there any other possible moves amongst the Russian Ladies skaters?

    CaroLiza_fan

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    with 3A and a quad he could do well at least competing internationally for Georgia
    Moris Kvitelashvili, a Georgian last name; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4wGgA-_SzI

    also Nikol Gosviani needs to think of her future
    she could do well too since Elene insn't good anymore

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    Anna Pogorilaya is likely of Ukranian origins given her last name (at first I thought it was Armenian, but then did some research and most with that surname are from Ukraine), so that could be a possible nationality switch if things don't pan out well in Russia in the future. Only competition there is Popova who is decent but not a huge threat.

    Agree about Gosviani, and also Mazuraidze (sp?) Liubov Illusheshkina's old partner could represent Georgia as well, if he found a new partner there.

    Jason Brown is Jewish, so he could likely skate for Israel if his chance doesn't arise in the US, though he seems to be doing well for now.

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    Max Aaron is Jewish also. But I see little chance of either Jason or Max skating for Israel.

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    I think we can safely say that Jason and Max are going to have plenty of opportunities to skate for Team USA and a country switch is not necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Agree about Gosviani, and also Mazuraidze (sp?) Liubov Illusheshkina's old partner could represent Georgia as well, if he found a new partner there.
    I don't think he needs to do that. Firstly, he already has a new partner and despite the short time they have been together, they placed fourth at their senior nationals, and secondly, after Volosozhar/Trankov and Kavaguti/Smirnov retire, they have a chance to be second or third Russian couple. So why changing if the Russian Federation will offer him more support than any other skating federation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Anna Pogorilaya is likely of Ukranian origins given her last name (at first I thought it was Armenian, but then did some research and most with that surname are from Ukraine), so that could be a possible nationality switch if things don't pan out well in Russia in the future. Only competition there is Popova who is decent but not a huge threat.

    Agree about Gosviani, and also Mazuraidze (sp?) Liubov Illusheshkina's old partner could represent Georgia as well, if he found a new partner there.

    Jason Brown is Jewish, so he could likely skate for Israel if his chance doesn't arise in the US, though he seems to be doing well for now.
    Just curious, is Gosviani of Georgian descent? I was very curious about her first name, it's quite unusual for Russia isn't it? Also, aren't Mazuraidze and Sikharulidze ect. Armenian names, not Georgian?

    Also just thought I'd add to the old conversation about Russian skaters getting alternate nationalities to compete, this was supposed to be for the benefit of Let's Talk, but it looks like he/she got banned (called it!), but in case anyone else is interested, Germany had (although it may have changed) residency permits for those of German descent. One of Katarina Gerboldt's grandfathers was German so she might qualify. Is she still competing? She was in pairs, perhaps if she went to Germany they could find her a good German male partner, the Germans tend to develop better men than women pairs skaters these days, hence the need to look abroad for partners (eg Aliona).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MalloryArcher View Post
    Just curious, is Gosviani of Georgian descent? I was very curious about her first name, it's quite unusual for Russia isn't it? Also, aren't Mazuraidze and Sikharulidze ect. Armenian names, not Georgian?

    Also just thought I'd add to the old conversation about Russian skaters getting alternate nationalities to compete, this was supposed to be for the benefit of Let's Talk, but it looks like he/she got banned (called it!), but in case anyone else is interested, Germany had (although it may have changed) residency permits for those of German descent. One of Katarina Gerboldt's grandfathers was German so she might qualify. Is she still competing? She was in pairs, perhaps if she went to Germany they could find her a good German male partner, the Germans tend to develop better men than women pairs skaters these days, hence the need to look abroad for partners (eg Aliona).
    Gerboldt is fairly tall (163 cm) for a pair skater so I'm not sure it would be easy for her to find another partner. In any case, she's still competing with Enbert - they won bronze at the Lombardia Trophy.

    Here's a sample of Georgian names: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ers_of_Georgia

    Georgian: -vili, -dze, -ani
    Armenian: -yan -ian
    Ukrainian: -enko, -uk (especially -chenko, -chuk).

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassiem View Post
    Gerboldt is fairly tall (163 cm) for a pair skater so I'm not sure it would be easy for her to find another partner. In any case, she's still competing with Enbert - they won bronze at the Lombardia Trophy.

    Here's a sample of Georgian names: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ers_of_Georgia

    Georgian: -vili, -dze, -ani
    Armenian: -yan -ian
    Ukrainian: -enko, -uk (especially -chenko, -chuk).
    Georgia could potentially hit a jackpot here
    Moris Kvitelashvili who won Senior Cup of Russia 4th series landing 2 quads in LP

    http://fsrussia.ru/upl/results/1314/4etap/SEG008.HTM

    question is will Russia release him if he decides to skate for Georgia
    Georgia could be decent next quad if these skaters represent

    Ladies: Nikol Gosviani
    Men: Moris Kvitelashvili
    Pairs: Nodari Maisuradze and partner

  11. #101
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    If Russia is totally insane and crazy they would release kvitelashvili! All these people have sikharulidze to be a mentor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Georgia could potentially hit a jackpot here
    Moris Kvitelashvili who won Senior Cup of Russia 4th series landing 2 quads in LP

    http://fsrussia.ru/upl/results/1314/4etap/SEG008.HTM

    question is will Russia release him if he decides to skate for Georgia
    Georgia could be decent next quad if these skaters represent

    Ladies: Nikol Gosviani
    Men: Moris Kvitelashvili
    Pairs: Nodari Maisuradze and partner
    The problem is that all those competitors are currently competing internationally so they would have to sit out a year! Besides, all of them are doing reasonably well so they have no reason to change at this point.

  13. #103
    EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA CaroLiza_fan's Avatar
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    Since this discussion has started creeping into other threads, I thought I would try and bring it back into the dedicated thread.

    For example, silverlake22 brought up in the Ukrainian Ladies thread about Pogorilaya being a Ukrainian name, and that, given the depth of field in Russia, the Ukraine might be a good move for her.

    Similarly, myself and many others have (in many threads!) been encouraging Nikol Gosviani to switch to Georgia as, once Elene Gedevanishvili retires, there isn’t really anybody to replace her.

    Although it is not to do with singles skaters, I also want to highlight an example that golden411 pointed out in response to a comment I made. (By the way, with how much the conversation had moved on by the time I came back to that thread, I never got the chance to say thank you to golden411 for the kind words. Also you were right in realising that I was playing devil’s advocate with my comment about Nagasu, and thank you for pointing it out to the other members).

    Andrew Poje is of Slovakian descent.

    Now, this was a big surprise to me, as from the way his surname is pronounced (well, the way it is pronounced by the commentators I listen to, anyway!), I always thought that he was either Quebecois or just of French descent.

    Just out of curiosity, I looked up the results of Three Nationals, and found that there has been only 1 entry in the Slovakian Ice Dance Championships each year since 2010!

    Given how well they have been doing in Canadian Championships during this time frame, it would be stupid to suggest that Weaver and Poje should have used Andrew’s background to switch to skating for Slovakia. But, if they had not been this successful…

    ==================================================

    When I started this thread, I was just trying to look for ways that skaters could use their family background to their advantage. But, in the past few months, we have seen that switching countries can also have disadvantages.

    I am of course talking about the situation that arose in Australia, where Chantelle Kerry’s camp claimed that Brooklee Han wasn’t eligible to represent Australia at the Olympics.

    Admittedly, the Kerry camp used other things as excuses to take it to the Court of Arbitration. But, you got the distinct impression that what it all boiled down to was that Chantelle’s camp were annoyed that the Australian Federation was leaning towards picking to represent Australia somebody they considered to be a foreigner, rather than a “home-grown” Aussie.

    Brooklee, of course, was born and reared in America, but has an Australian Dad. Chantelle, on the other hand, was born and reared in Australia.

    When I started the Fan Fest thread for Ashley Cain, I hinted that I would love to see her switching to Australia (her Dad, of course, being Peter Cain, a former Pairs skater from Sydney).

    The way I was thinking was that the arrival of Ashley into the mix would push Brooklee and Chantelle forwards. With three good skaters competing for the same international slot, all three girls would improve, and it would only be a good thing for Australian skating.

    Now, though, I am having second thoughts as to whether this would be a good move. Ashley is in the same boat as Brooklee, in that she was born and reared in America. So, in theory, the same thing could happen to her sometime down the line.

    But, it started me thinking. For the past few years, Ashley Wagner has without doubt been the top American Ladies skater. Similarly, Clara Peters is without doubt the top Irish Ladies skater. But, despite both sets of parents being from those countries, both these skaters were actually born in Germany. (Although, given her surname, I would bet an awful lot of money that Ashley has more than a little German or Austrian blood running through her… )

    Don’t worry, this is a totally different situation to what has been discussed so far in this thread. It was just a simple case that the families just happened to be in Germany at the time the girls were born.

    But, in light of the case in Australia, it does start you wondering. Could somebody challenge these girls’ eligibility for representing their respective countries? I can’t see it happening in Ireland – like, who is there to challenge Clara? But, America is a different matter.

    Hypothetically, could whoever finishes fourth in American Nationals next week put in a challenge for Ashley’s slots at Olympics and Worlds?

    It’s a scary thought.

    CaroLiza_fan

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaroLiza_fan View Post
    Hypothetically, could whoever finishes fourth in American Nationals next week put in a challenge for Ashley’s slots at Olympics and Worlds?

    It’s a scary thought.

    CaroLiza_fan
    lol - no, Ashley is safe!
    American soldiers stationed in other countries with their families have comprehensible special statutes with regards to having a child born there. Ashley was a 100% US citizen from the moment she was born. Actually, having both parents be US Citizens as is the case with Ashley is enough to be a 100% US Citizen from birth.


    Since this seems to be the right place for it, here's a post of mine from a few days ago - I hope someone (from Russia?) can shed a light on how switching nationalities has changed in 20 years in this specific instance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
    Does anyone know if anything has changed with regards to switching countries for Russian skaters in the last years?
    It seems strange to me that more skaters aren't already committing to another country within former Soviet Union, since back then at least it didn't seem too difficult to obtain that new citizenship.

    Julia Vorobieva, born and raised in Moscow, skated for Azerbaijan from 1993 to 2002, while still training and living in Moscow, without ever setting foot in Azerbaijan. At least, that's what the German Commentators said, I don't know if that's accurate.
    Julia Soldatova was a promising junior (98'JWC, 2nd at 99'EC, 3rd at 99'WC) but she only decided to switch to Belarus in 2000, while still training and living in Moscow, once she was allowed to compete for Belarus, she was already past her prime. She sat out her prime.

    Elena Sokolova was 7th at the 98'OG and 8th at the 98'WC, and then she had 5 years during which she didn't make it on the Russian Team despite being very constant at the same level. When she did finally make it, she was immediately at the international very top: 2nd at EC'03 and WC'03.
    Julia Lebedeva, born and raised in Moscow, nowhere near Sokolova's level, made the call in 1999 to switch to Armenia, while still training and living in Moscow.
    The difference between the 2: Lebedeva represented Armenia at the SLC OG (27th). Sokolova sat at home and saw her on tv...

    Of course I understand you want to represent your country. And to be a successful athlete, it helps to be convinced that "you're the best and you'll make it". Also, having Russia supporting you is another level than Armenia... But given the risk of having to sit out an entire season, or several seasons, or all your career, why aren't these slots being used?
    Armenia
    Azerbaijan
    Belarus
    Kazakhstan
    Kyrgyzstan
    Moldova
    Tajikistan
    Uzbekistan

  15. #105
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    Fedor andreev-----canadian and russian

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