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Thread: Possible alternative nationalities in singles skating

  1. #76
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jolen View Post
    I am not sure how much attachment there is. Not only did she not pursue citizenship until she started with Poirier, but her mother never pursued her Canadian citizenship until Piper started with Poirier. Mrs. G. had to become Canadian first and then in turn applied for her two daughters.

    It appears like the attachment is to a guaranteed Olympic spot.

    The rule allowing second generation born abroad individuals Canadian citizenship changed not too long ago.
    LOL, Canada has at least three dance couples who would disagree that Gilles/Poirier are "guaranteed" to receive the third Olympic spot. And after Poirier's injury (not a laughing matter), counting G/P's chickens before they hatch makes even less sense.

    Alexe Gilles surely cannot have any expectation that Canada ever would give her an Olympic spot for ladies unless she earns it fair and square.

  2. #77
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    Crone/Poirier finished 12th at Worlds before going to the Olympics, where they finished 14th.
    Gilles/Poirier were 18th at 2013 Worlds, which didn't help their Olympic hopes even before Paul broke his ankle.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    More valid? You think that people that are seeking freedom of choice, religion and politics have a less valid reason for gaining citizenship into a country that will become their home than someone who needs citizenship for two weeks to participate in a sporting event and then most likely will never set foot in that country again.
    I think it comes down to how different people value citizenship. Perhaps we have become used to it being cheapened in the sports world.
    Yes, more valid. They dedicated their chosen sport their whole childhood. Hours and hours hard work. The decision to seek freedom of choice, religion and politics could have been made without making comparable sacrifices to those the athletes do. You value freedom of choice, religion and politics above everything else and therefore in your eyes your reason is more valid than anyone else's reason. But for the athletes who sacrificed so much, they value above all the Olympics, for them their reason will be more valid than yours (and I would agree with them). You are calling it to "being cheapened in the sports world". Anyone more cynical could say about your reason that you only moved for better life. Whose reason is more valid is matter of opinion. If you ask different people, you get different answers.I believe they have a strong reason.

  4. #79
    EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA CaroLiza_fan's Avatar
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    Ah good – somebody revived this thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Was the original title of this thread changed?
    I don't recall that it originally was restricted to singles skating -- so this post is about ice dancers.
    Firstly, no the title of this thread has NOT been changed. I deliberately wanted the discussion to be about singles skaters.

    We regularly see pairs skaters and ice dancers changing the country they represent (usually because their skating partner is of a different nationality), but it doesn’t happen so much in singles skating. So, I wanted to bring up the issue and see what people thought about it.


    Now onto why I am glad this thread has been revived. There is something I have been wondering for a year or so, and I thought you guys might be able to help enlighten me.

    As you may or may not know, I am also a fan of ski jumping. And, over the past few years, I have been taking a particular interest in the fortunes of the Italian ladies team.

    When the Women’s World Cup first started in 2011, Elena Runggaldier, Roberta d’Agostina and Evelyn Insam were all closely matched. But, it was clear that Elena Runggaldier was the front runner of the team. After all, she had recently won a silver at the World Championships (in 2010).

    However, since then Insam has become the stand-out jumper, regularly getting top-10 finishes and even the odd podium last season. On the other hand, Runggaldier has become a mid-field jumper, while d’Agostina has been struggling to even get through to the 2nd round.

    It is almost as if the further Evelyn goes forward, the further Elena and Roberta go backwards.

    To somebody on the outside looking in, it looks as if the Italian team are putting all their weight behind Evelyn, and are not giving the same attention to Elena and Roberta. Which, given Elena’s past success, seems very unfortunate.

    That started me thinking. Elena (like Evelyn) is from the South Tyrol, and is ethnic Austrian. So, is it theoretically possible for Elena to switch to the Austrian team if she feels she is not getting the attention she deserves from the Italian team?


    Time for a quick history lesson. In 1919, the Treaty of St Germain transferred the South Tyrol to Italy, purely so that Italy would have access to the strategic Brenner Pass through the Alps. Before that, the South Tyrol was part of Austria.

    Even though nearly 100 years have passed, the majority of the population of the South Tyrol is still ethnic Austrian, and the first language most people speak is still German (and the second language is usually Ladin. For most people, Italian is only their third language spoken).


    The reason I am asking this question on skating forum is that one of the members of the Italian figure skating team has the same background as Elena Runggaldier:

    • They are from the South Tyrol
    • They are ethnic Austrian
    • They speak German as their first language


    You may have heard tell of this skater. Their name is… Carolina Kostner.

    Of course, at this stage of her career, there is no way Carolina would switch teams. But, I am still interested to know whether it is theoretically possible that somebody from the South Tyrol could represent Austria.

    Thank you

    CaroLiza_fan

  5. #80
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaroLiza_fan View Post
    Ah good – somebody revived this thread!

    Firstly, no the title of this thread has NOT been changed. I deliberately wanted the discussion to be about singles skaters.

    We regularly see pairs skaters and ice dancers changing the country they represent (usually because their skating partner is of a different nationality), but it doesn’t happen so much in singles skating. So, I wanted to bring up the issue and see what people thought about it.
    My apologies for my poor memory, CLF. (Maybe I had this thread confused with another one from the past? )

    Regarding singles skaters (as well as other skaters):
    With all due respect to the good intentions of posters on this thread and others, I find it quite presumptuous to engage in speculation as to whether Skater X should/could skate for another country -- if X has never even hinted that a possible switch has even crossed her/his mind. Just because some skaters have changed their nationalities does not mean that all skaters are willing to go to such lengths only for the sake of their skating.
    Example: Somehow Gao's name came up for discussion earlier in this thread. But has Gao ever said one word to suggest that skating for China might interest her? Just because her prospects for reaching the Olympics might improve does not automatically mean that she would have any desire whatsoever to skate for China.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    LOL, Canada has at least three dance couples who would disagree that Gilles/Poirier are "guaranteed" to receive the third Olympic spot. And after Poirier's injury (not a laughing matter), counting G/P's chickens before they hatch makes even less sense.

    Alexe Gilles surely cannot have any expectation that Canada ever would give her an Olympic spot for ladies unless she earns it fair and square.

    LOL. Golden, you are absolutely correct I should have placed quotation marks on guaranteed in my post. I know my hopes are with Paul/Islam. But you must admit, at least initially, it looked like a G/P slam - dunk, and everyone seemed to be operating on that premise without regard for "fair and square".

    In any case, I would definitely like to see a competition for that spot.

  7. #82
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    I don't see Alexe Gilles EVER qualifying to represent Canada at Worlds/Olympics; I doubt she would ever be in a GP event. She no longer has the lutz she had when she won the US Junior Championship. At Canadian Nationals 2013, she finished 13th. In the SP, she landed 3t+2t, 3lo, and fell on the 2a; in the FS, she fell on the 3lo, and landed just two triples--both 3ts--and doubled all the other jumps. In the US, she wouldn't even qualify for Novice Nationals with that jump repertoire.

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    I don't think Gilles can make the Canadian team at this point (singles). Yes her repoertoire is weak - a bit of an exaggeration she wouldn't make the US novice - come on folks. For years Canada's ladies were joked about compared to the us ladies and even without Rochette they don't do all that bad against the American ladies. It's not like canada doesn't have a top ten lady. That being said there are two Canadian spots. And Rochette seems to be not returning so... who gets spot no. 2 assuming Osmond gets one spot.

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    The lowest-rank lady at US Novice Nationals landed a 3z. All the Novice ladies had either 3z or 3f or both. The Novice champion had 3z, 3lo, 3s, 3t and a 2a^2a sequence. Sorry, but Gilles wouldn't be competitive with those girls. She wouldn't have made it out of Sectionals.

  10. #85
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    There is an article in the sports section of The Toronto Star newspaper about G/P citizenship issues. The reader comments after the article sound like one of our typical conversations. I guess this topic stirs up a lot of opinions no matter who you are.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by moon View Post
    There is an article in the sports section of The Toronto Star newspaper about G/P citizenship issues. The reader comments after the article sound like one of our typical conversations. I guess this topic stirs up a lot of opinions no matter who you are.

    She seems to be extremely conversant with methods ( and obviously has the means) to promote herself.

  12. #87
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    The Gilles family obviously has lots of $$---at one time they were supporting two daughters and a son at the elite level.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    The Gilles family obviously has lots of $$---at one time they were supporting two daughters and a son at the elite level.
    And supporting them in the US which is more $$$$$$ than in Canada.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    I don't think Gilles can make the Canadian team at this point (singles). Yes her repoertoire is weak - a bit of an exaggeration she wouldn't make the US novice - come on folks. For years Canada's ladies were joked about compared to the us ladies and even without Rochette they don't do all that bad against the American ladies. It's not like canada doesn't have a top ten lady. That being said there are two Canadian spots. And Rochette seems to be not returning so... who gets spot no. 2 assuming Osmond gets one spot.
    Chartrand or Daleman. They both have 3lz and 3f and can do 3-3 combos, Daleman only does 3t-3t but Chartrand can do 3lz-3t and 3lz-1/2lo-3s. Certainly one of those two is likely to get the spot, or if not then Lacoste would be the most likely. My money is on Chartrand though, she's the strongest technically.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    The lowest-rank lady at US Novice Nationals landed a 3z. All the Novice ladies had either 3z or 3f or both. The Novice champion had 3z, 3lo, 3s, 3t and a 2a^2a sequence. Sorry, but Gilles wouldn't be competitive with those girls. She wouldn't have made it out of Sectionals.
    Maybe not this past year but the level at Nationals can vary a lot year to year. Kiri Baga and Hannah Miller both won the novice title at Nationals with only 3t and 3s. And actually the competition at the senior level is sometimes easier, Laney Diggs did all doubles at Nationals this year, Sophia Adams I think only has 2 triples and Morgan Bell 3 and they both qualified for Nationals at the senior level..

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