Frank Carroll interview | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Frank Carroll interview

Big Deal

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
This interview is a part of the history of our beloved sport.
6,0 in the old, and 10,0 in the COP system.
Do you know when the 2nd part will be broadcasted?
I'm unpatient...
 

Big Deal

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
It is absolutely a sideway notice:
Is that Frank Carrol appartment in the background? It is absolutely beautiful and tasteful!
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I just watched it again. :) Let’s see here…just to pick some of Mr. Carroll’s comments at random… Here is his response to the question of whether he was a better teacher of toe jumps than of edge jumps, with particular reference to Michelle Kwan’s loop jump.

I was so happy to hear the way Carroll expressed his opinion of Michelle, not just with affection but with admiration. He articulated the reasons she is on my Forever List. Even if skaters take to doing quintuple jumps, she'll still stand out.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
But I’ve got to tell you something about Michelle. If you go back and look at 1996 or if you look at the year 2001 and you see her triple-triple, and you look at the year 2000, then you see some of her show programs like to Les Miserables, the On My Own, and even Pocahontas, which I didn’t want her to do because I though t it was such a hokey thing, and you look at her interpretation of the music, and her head, and her use of arms without looking at her feet, the emotion, the beauty of the flow across the ice, the dynamic landings, there’s no one in the world who skates like that.

I’m sorry, I don’t care whether you’re adding up beans in a pot for difficulty…I mean, no one exists like Michelle, with that beauty of movement, that power, that imterpretation, you know, the technical accuracy. You know, she was one of a kind and I don’t see anyone coming up that looks like that. I’m sorry, I just don’t. I don’t.

OMG I so agree. I wasn't originally a fan of Les, On My Own and Pocahontas for the same reasons but I just thought I'd watch it one more time and interpretation of them just hit me. They are now favs of mine.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
After all these years, I still think Linda was robbed.

After listening to Frank's remarks, I'm certain of it.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Yeah robbed by a german cabal that ran figure skating!! But just for ladies of course because Jan Hoffman lost! It's so political! Go against the German cabal! Vote American! Please!
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I don't pretend to know what happened, or how anyone won that year. All I can say is that it would have been a much worse injustice if Robin Cousins had lost the gold than it was for Linda Fratianne to be beaten by Annett Potzsche. Both those ladies were excellent but not great skaters. Cousins was one of the best of all time, and Hoffmann was no more than ordinary.

I'm kind of surprised that Cousins isn't talked about more these days. He was an innovative skater, very fluid, with grand jumps. Unlike Evan Lysacek, Cousins made his height work for him in jumps and movements. He also had a long and productive pro career, where he skated to interesting choreography and did some choreography himself. He was a standout at the Landover world pro championships for some years.
 

KKonas

Medalist
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
I just loved how forthcoming and how detailed he was. He managed to be honest without being snide or vengeful, and I love the way he characterized the skaters he discussed in detail, notably Bowman, Fratianne, Chin, and Kwan. Of course being a Kwan uber, I love what he said about her being one of a kind. It's great hearing it from Frank, who in addition to being her most influential coach is one of the finest coaches in the world. It was wonderfully satisfying to hear him mention the details of what made her such a great skater (I loved his contempt for "bean counters"). I also appreciated his heartfelt evaluation of Christopher Bowman as a skater and as a person. It must have been agonizing for him to know so much about Chris's demons at that time, when he had to keep quiet about it all. His mention of Mrs. Bowman coming to him saying that she couldn't find Chris was heartrending.

I knew Christopher Bowman during the years of his career. His mother was a wonderful cook. I believe her heritage was from Malta, a tiny island off of Italy. She was so much like the stereotypical Italian mother, warm, gregarious, outgoing (much of which Christopher inherited), but it was his dad who had the best sense of humor, exhibiting a dry wit that Christopher also inherited and was something that made him such a fun personality. Unfortunately he didn’t inherit his dad’s genes when it came to his weight as his dad was quite slender. Keeping his weight down was a real problem for Christopher as he tended to gain weight rather easily as he grew into his teen years, so Frank Carroll began to monitor Christopher’s weight on a daily basis. How he hated those daily weigh-ins! His mother did what she could, even to taking food off his plate if she felt he had enough to eat in order to keep his weight down. I really think that those daily weigh-ins was what caused him to start taking drugs because then he had no appetite for food. The problem then was that he couldn’t control the drugs. I knew he was in rehab and that lasted for a while, but once off drugs, his weight gain eventually put him back into drugs. It was a vicious cycle. I had hoped that after his skating career was over and he had married and had a daughter that all that terrible cycle ended and it did for a few years. I don’t know what caused him to spiral back into drugs but in the end it finally killed him. It really was such a tragedy because I so remember his beautiful skating, his wit and charm.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
KKonas, thanks so much for your post about Christopher's story. He was a very special skater.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Fratianne is one of the most drab and overrated skaters of all time and most certainly was NOT robbed of the 1980 Olympic Gold medal. It is laughable so many of you say you are convinced by what Frank Carrol says, Frank coached Fratianne since she was a little girl and was best friends with her now late mother, so of course he is going to be insanely partial and biased. On most issues I would put alot of stock in his opinion but not in this case. Both he and Linda need to get over it already, it is over 30 years later and both still bring it up all the time. The result was pretty simple, Poetzsch is way better than Fratianne and figures and everyone always knew that. At those Games Poetzsch had a shaky short program, and Fratianne's was much better, but the short program isnt worth as much as figures so Poetzsch still had a clear lead. Their free skates at the Games were basically the same, both did the same two triples, most of the other same elements, and I am surprised Fratianne even won the free skate by as much over Poetzsch as she did (8 judges to 1) but in the end still not enough to make up Poetzsch's figures superiority. The real Olympic Champion of those Games if there werent figures was Biellmann anyway, who is twice a more compelling skater than the drones that are Poetzsch and Fratianne. Fratianne was never robbed of a title she deserved and many times gifts ones she did not, the 77 National title over Burge, and the 80 National title over Marie Allen for instance. She was often overmarked and placed ahead of far more outstanding free skaters in free skating portions of events too- all of Vodorezova, Biellmann, Marie Allen, and Poetzsch (who on the day was better) at the 78 Worlds, a complete joke she won the free skating portion there although thankfully it didnt gift her the title; Watanabe at the 1980 Worlds. Of course Frank was always mum when it came to those cases. Lindas Mom was the worst at the time, complaining endlessly when her daughter lost a single event, and even saying that the judges should be taken to court for the 1980 Olympic result, LOL!

Now as for the mens result at the 1980 Olympics, I am glad for the overall betterment of the sport that the wonderful Cousins won, however taking into account the big figures leads (which was legit, Hoffmann was far superior in compulsory figures to Cousins), and that Hoffmann skated a much more technically dificult long program and Cousins even made a mistake on his hardest jump, Cousins coming from way behind to pass Hoffmann was questionable, and Hoffmann probably should have won. However I am glad it worked out the way it did, as Cousins is a far more suitable Olympic Champion, a skater for the ages.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
KKonas, thanks for the insight into Bowman's life.

Pangtongfan, remember how elegant Lisa Marie Allen was? I often wished that she had gotten at least one national championship. She has apparently done some choreography, and I have the vague memory that she also did some competitive horseback riding.

I hadn't remembered that Hoffman had a more technically difficult long program than Cousins, but I remember that Hoffmann wasn't particularly impressive in terms of presentation, while Cousins was wonderful, and Cousins was a direction in which skating should have moved. Hoffmann was just more of the same, only better--what I call one of the "businesslike" champions. I seem to recall that Hoffmann won the Worlds that year, while Cousins never won a Worlds gold, and I think that was about right. I will always have a soft spot for Hoffmann, because as a judge in 1998 at Nagano, he placed Michelle Kwan above Tara Lipinski, presumably on the strength of presentation. He did the same with Oksana above Nancy in 1994.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
Yeah robbed by a german cabal that ran figure skating!! But just for ladies of course because Jan Hoffman lost! It's so political! Go against the German cabal! Vote American! Please!

Good Lord.:rolleye:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Actually, I liked Carroll's take on U.S. political naiveté. We can't even get Canada to go along with us. :laugh:

Which was quite true, by the way. For some reason Canadian judges were always murder on Michelle Kwan.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Actually, I liked Carroll's take on U.S. political naiveté. We can't even get Canada to go along with us. :laugh:

Which was quite true, by the way. For some reason Canadian judges were always murder on Michelle Kwan.

They were probably the ones who thought Irina Slutskaya's artistry was flourishing over that of Michelle's.

Michelle seemed to like going to Skate Canada though (probably because of proximity to her numerous U.S. engagements.)
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Frank Carroll was very honest and it's refreshing and fascinating to hear him talk to so freely. But some of his comments don't sit well with me.

There is no problem with admiring Michelle's beautiful skating. I am a huge Michelle fan. But it is very, very disappointing that he couldn't give Irina even a tiniest bit of credit--that she was "not a beautiful skater" and then talking about how mind-boggling it is that she achieved what she did against Michelle Kwan. Irina was a trailblazer for her country and she had unique skills that Michelle didn't have and she left a unique legacy of her own. No, she wasn't Michelle, but just because you're not Michelle doesn't mean you're devoid of ability and skill. Frank gave Tara and Sarah more respect than he did Irina. If Irina lacked such ability and the wins over Michelle were so political (as Frank seems to imply), then I guess Michelle's wins over Irina at Worlds were less meaningful since they came over a skater who didn't offer anything else to the sport.

That's just not fair. Maybe that's what happens when you've been a coach for so long, it's not about being fair, and the politics become such an ingrained part of the process that you forget to separate what's political versus the truth. Frank still views everything through Kwan-colored glasses which is sweet if you're a MK fan but a bit maddening if you're also a fan of other skaters. You believe your skater is the best and if a rival skater from a foreign country knocks her out, then it's political. Of course, if the reverse happens and your skater defeats a skater from another country, then it's fairly won. He talks about how the judges left room for Michelle at the 1996 Worlds after Lu Chen skated, which he told to comfort a nervous Michelle before her FS. He admits that it was a controversial result, but doesn't mention that hey, maybe representing the USA might've helped Michelle versus Lu Chen. Just a bit.

As beautiful as Michelle was and is, she did have weaknesses that gave others the advantage--others such as Sarah, Tara, and Irina. Her Olympic losses weren't just about Michelle not skating freely in 1998 Olympics or not having a coach at the 2002 Olympics. It was about the fact that she didn't have a consistent 3/3 and it wasn't as difficult as the ones they were doing--each time she lost to someone who did have that. But whose fault is that? Maybe no one's fault, but maybe it was Frank's fault. I found the question from Jenny wondering if Michelle couldn't up the technical ante because she was too busy with shows/being on television to be kind of odd, and then even weirder that Frank kind of agreed that "it was a difficult thing" to do with all of Michelle's commitments, and then he sort of wandered off to discuss the 3A that Michelle was practicing as a junior. I don't think Michelle's inability to have a more consistent 3T/3T or a more difficult 3/3 had anything to do with her commitments. The occasional 3T/3T was probably just the extent of her abilities in terms of difficult combinations. Michelle didn't seem to like the flip as she tended to avoid it in the SP for quite some time for a significantly easier toeloop, so how could she have done a 3F/3T?

Finally, there was the very strange comment from Frank not thinking that Michelle ever really intended to compete at the 2006 Olympics and that it was a business decision. At that time, Frank hadn't been Michelle's coach for many years. So that was odd. I actually think it's very realistic that a skater who once made the crazy decision to go coachless at the 2002 Olympics could also make the crazy decision to try and push herself for a third Olympics with the wild hope that she could somehow win the OGM even though her body was literally breaking down at that point. Even though everyone else probably knew that there was no chance that Michelle could win the OGM, Michelle somehow still believed. Michelle's most questionable decisions came in pursuit of the Olympic gold medal. I don't blame her for that, it's only human. I think it was the furthest thing from a business decision, actually. It was a wild and crazy decision. But every day, tons of people throw away money on a wild and crazy chance to try and win the lottery. I think Michelle, against all odds, was trying to win the lottery. And it's sad that it didn't happen and it's best that she ended up withdrawing.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Frank is very biased towards his own skaters and towards American skaters in general. I think he gives Lipinski and Hughes more credit since even though they werent his, and even though they frequently rivalled and beat his (well Tara anyway did) atleast they were American, which is the next best thing. Giving credit to foreigners though, especialy big bad evil Russians or East Germans, much less likely. It is good atleast he acknowledes the 96 Worlds was a controversial result. Not that Michelle winning was a crazy result or anything, she was outstanding there, but it is true many also though Chen should have won. That was the only time he was remotedly objective when one of his own skaters were involved, and it took me by surprise. He even dissed the skating of Yagudin and Plushenko at the SLC Games and tried to imply Tim Goebel was somewhat superior to them, LOL!
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Yes it is also true to the person who said dissing Irina just makes Michelle look bad indirectly. If Irina sucks and could only win medals through politics, than the Michelle Kwan era must have totally sucked and she must have had no competition at all, if her best opponent almost her whole career was a no talent sloppy hot mess of a skater only on top through politics. Her competition was so incredibly weak they had to politically invent a rival. So how much is Michelle Kwan's great career and all her wins worth if that is how poor her era and her competition was. Essentialy when he says that, that is what he is implying. Poor Michelle, she deserves better than that.
 
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