I think this is a real turning point for the Catholic Church. Your thoughts??
I think this is a real turning point for the Catholic Church. Your thoughts??
There has been discussion that maybe the new pope might be from South or Central America or Africa, since those are areas where the church is growing.
Dee thank you for starting this thread. The pope is a huge spiritual and yes political leader. The spirit clearly chose a Polish pope and bear of a man in JP2. He Reagan and Gorbachev were the worldly trinity that helped end the USSR. The secular press is doing thousands or articles around the world as the leader of 1 billion catholics is very powerful. I wish I knew who Benedict is quietly praying for, as he knows them all and appointed 67 of them in the last 8 years. So better than any human, he knows them.
If it is Sean O'Malley, I will feel the unluckiest girl on earth. I will say, and did as aside when we were discussing the dc mess, that I met him by chance in Victoria's Diner on my rare trip to Boston-it was always hospitals and now I went to the Basilica, a beautiful church with a miraculous image of Mary-many crutches left there, though miracles are quite rare. I asked for prayers of the 3 preists who walked in, and as they were waiting for a waiter (a long wait) I screwed up courage to ask for prayer, as my pilgrimage to the Mission church was in desperation. I seemed to find him in a cold mood-I felt not welcomed and when I mouthed a very serious reason for them to pray, the other two priests looked more concerned/interested. Tonight, I just read that he said mass at a church (all cardinals have a Roman Church they are 'assigned" to. His has the word Victory in the title, essentially . Our Lady of Victory. For those of you who saw the movie "Angels and Demons" with Tom Hanks-this is the church. I never saw it or DaVinci code. Yes, I live under a rock, LOL.
I just had to tell you, he is on a short list and he is fluent in Spanish, and worked much in Hispanic communities. Initially, I loved that he was Franciscan-he still wears his habit and sandals. But the warmth I saw on TV is gone-10 years in-he is big on downsizing the dying diocese of Boston-we had many church closers everywhere due to the huge payouts to abuse victims and the alledged victims. Rightly so, but he came into the position as the Antidote to Bernard Cardinal Law and did a good job steering the then 400 church diocese through the mess the Cardinal left behind. So there is the skinny on him-though they say no way will a superpower get the Papacy due to many reasons. The Curia(italian cardinals who run the Vatican dat to day really want an Italian after 35 years and have the voting power. So much for the spirit, LOL. I'm sure God plays a role but it is very political.
If we get a Roman preist named Peter or clearly associated, then read up on St. Malachy. And spend all you have having fun. Likely that won't happen, as Saint M's prophecies are mostly debunked. If you want a site that follows the action SpiritDaily.com has links and original articles. 5 days are expected. I wrote a letter (didn't ask someone to fax it) to the Cardinal but know it never got there and likely would not get read any time soon before he flew to Rome. I begged him in 5 pages (breif for me as you know I get tangential) to pray but moreover give it to the new Pope or the holiest Cardinal he knew. It, I am sure is sitting in his office unopened/unread. I met him Feb 2 and Pope resigned Feb 11. When I wrote to him, I think he was literally on the plane. I know he gets many prayer requests, but he was in a qiet spot, simply waiting. I found him cold and I hope he is not elected. If he is, he will likely never read my letter as he will immediately move to Rome.
So, does the Word Victory twice figure to mean anything? The Americans want a Pope to clean up the Curia. The curia wants an Italian Pope. I think that since the church is only growing in the southern hemisphere, it should be a third world Pope. Africa or south America are the obvious choices. It is fascinating. I have never read all this stuff-I truly loved history and the Church is fascinating.
I love Cardinal Dolan but he doesn't have the languages I guess and an American is unlikely. This Pope is incredibly important. May God give us a good shepherd who brings God alive.
I'm not Catholic, but I did go to Catholic school for 4 years, which was wehn JP2 was elected Pope.
Whoever is elected will need to someone with charisma who can support the church's positions in a less hard line fashion. IMHO, some have turned away from the church due to their positions on same sex marriages, birth control etc. There's a disconnect between the church's position vs real life.
JP2 was very much the 'every man' while Benedict was perhaps to scholarly in his bearing to connect to the world.
My newspaper reported that some of the cardinals being discussed:
Peter Appiah Turkson 64 - Ghanna
Timothy Dolan 62 - USA
Marc Ouellet 68 - Canada
Leonardo Sandri 69 - Argentina
Christoph Schonborn 68 - Austria
Angelo Scola 71 - Italy
It makes me wonder who Pope Emeritus would pick. If Sean returns I hope he will intercede. The Popes at times have healing powers. JPII did. I would go in a heartbet had I a caretaker able and wiling. I have read up on your list Dee. I think it has to be south American cardinal. There is a Brazillian born Cardinal of German descent. I don't think JP was elected, the hand of God Chose him. I know Benedict did the right thing-he never wanted the position. He did his best. Whether he has any influence on his successor wil be hard to discern.
There is so much involved in this election...its very interesting. Huge events-World's Champs and a very important Papal election. I pray the best leader is chosen. Looking for the praying I con and we haven't one. Doris, we hear often fans are praying for their Fave. In honor of all things Italian, I pray Caro wins! Makes me wonder if Italy ever had a great male skater. Two things keeping me glued to the Coverage if I can. Exciting week, then a big letdown I suspect.
Doris, is Pulaski polish? You might be Catholic? I know you are up on all things. What's your best guest? I should be sleeping but...I am not. So much
I belong to the United Church of Christ. My maiden name was not Polish My husband was raised Episcopalian, but his mother was Catholic. But my brother (who died in 1991) & his family (his widow & my nieces) are Catholic; so I keep up to date a bit.
I do pray for skaters; I pray for each & every one of them to skate their very best, and for all of them to stay healthy.
I have no idea who will be pope, but it is an interesting topic, because it is a process we see infrequently, have no control over, and yet it has an effect on our world. I hope the next pope will be one who has not been touched by the financial scandals, and had no role in shipping pedophile priests on to other parishes. I hope he will be more like Pope John the 23rd, but I think that is unlikely.
John the 23rd was an extraordinary man. So was John Paul II, though I didn't share the latter's conservative stance on everything. JP2 clearly believed in the worth of every human being, and he did not draw the line at non-Catholics, even as a young man. It's significant to me that the two popes who (before their papacies) did the most to help Jews during World War II were John 23 and John Paul 2. Both of these men seemed to love and enjoy people, a feeling I never got from Benedict. I hope they find someone who is able to embrace the world.
How they pick the pope is very interesting to me.Originally Posted by Timothy Cardinal Dolan
* Technically, any Catholic male who has reached the age of reason, is not a heretic, is not in schism, and is not “notorious” for simony can be elected pope. If he is not a bishop, however, he must be first consecrated as one before he can assume office. If a priest is elected, the Cardinal Dean consecrates him bishop; if a layman is elected, then the Cardinal Dean first ordains him deacon, then priest, and only then consecrates him as bishop. Only after becoming a bishop does the pope-elect take office.
* The voting by cardinals to elect the next pope takes place behind the locked doors of the Sistine Chapel, following a highly detailed procedure last revised by Pope John Paul II in the “Universi Dominici Gregis” of 22 February 1996, stating that cardinals who have reached the age of 80 before the day the see becomes vacant do not have a vote.
*The papal conclave must take place not before the 15. day and at the latest the 20. day after the Pope dies or resigns.
* The Cardinals must take an oath when they first enter the Conclave that they will follow the rules set down by the Pope and that they will maintain absolute secrecy about the voting and deliberations. Cardinal electors may not correspond or converse with anyone outside the conclave, by post, radio, telephone or otherwise and eavesdropping is an offense punishable by excommunication.
* It is a secret vote, and the ballots can be cast once on the first day of the conclave, then normally twice during each subsequent morning and evening session. Except for periodic pauses, the voting continues until a new pontiff is elected.
* A two-thirds supermajority vote is required to elect the new pope.
* After all the noncardinals have left the chapel, the Cardinals all take seats around the wall of the Sistine Chapel and take a ballot paper which states “Eligo in summum pontificem” — “I elect as supreme Pontiff…”. They then write a name on it, fold it, and then proceed one by one to approach the altar, where a chalice stands with a paten on it. They hold up their ballot high to show that they have voted, then place it on the paten, and then slide it into the chalice. Meanwhile, any ballots from sick cardinals are collected and brought back to the chapel.
* The votes are then counted by the Cardinal Camerlengo and his three assistants. Each assistant reads the name, reads the name aloud, writes it down on a tally sheet and then passes it to the next assistant. The last scrutineer pierces each ballot with a needle through the word “Eligo” and places it on a thread, so they can be secured.
* Any handwritten notes made by the cardinals during the vote are collected for burning with the ballots. If the first vote of the morning or evening session is inconclusive, a second vote normally follows immediately, and the ballots from both votes are burned together at the end.
* If no result is obtained after three vote days of balloting, the process is suspended for a maximum of one day for prayer and an address by the senior Cardinal Deacon. After seven further ballots, the process may again be similarly suspended, with the address now being delivered by the senior Cardinal Priest. If, after another seven ballots, no result is achieved, voting is suspended once more, the address being delivered by the senior Cardinal Bishop. After a further seven ballots, there shall be a day of prayer, reflection and dialogue.
* Johannes Paul’s II. change of procedur, that after 33 or 34 ballots a simple majority would be enough to elect a Pope, to increase the opportunity of electing the new Pope, was changed again by Benedict XVI, by declaring that in the following ballots, only the two names who received the most votes in the last ballot shall be eligible in a runoff election. However, the two people who are being voted on, if Cardinal electors, shall not themselves have the right to vote.
* If a new Pope has been elected, the ballots are burned immediately with chemicals (it used to be wet straw) to give white smoke. Otherwise, they give off black smoke, so that the waiting crowd, and the world, know that the new Holy Father will soon emerge from the Sistine Chapel and appear on the balcony of the vatican.
Acceptance and proclamation
* Once the election concludes, the Cardinal Dean summons the Secretary of the College of Cardinals and the Master of Papal Liturgical Celebrations into the hall. The Cardinal Dean then asks the pope-elect if he assents to the election, saying in Latin: “Acceptasne electionem de te canonice factam in Summum Pontificem? (Do you accept your canonical election as Supreme Pontiff?)”
* The Cardinals then pledge their obedience to His Holiness in turn. The Proto-Deacon of the College of Cardinals then steps onto the main balcony of the Vatican and declares to the World: “Habemus Papam!” “We have a Pope!” and tells the waiting world who has been chosen as the new pope and the name he has decided to take as Pope.
His Holiness then appears on the Balcony and delivers his Apostolic Blessing to the city of Rome and to the World.
Black Smoke - No one picked yet.
The news reported that the last few elections have taken no longer than 5 days.
After the cardinal accepts, he walks to the room of tears to don his papal garments and reflect upon his new responsibilities.
I was surprised how late the 1st vote was done. It was already late afternoon in Rome when they began filing into the Sistine Chapel. WHen I turned on the TV, I wasn't sure what to think since I didn't think there'd be a selection on the 1st day , but I really though they would've already been sequestered before 4:30pm Rome.
I have to say it's an interesting 'refresher' since I was in Catholic school when JP2 was elected and it was, of course, a really big deal. I don't recall as much spectacle when Benedict became pope.