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Thread: Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    (Quads are a renewable resource. )
    But Plushy's back and knees are not, which is the primary concern.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I have to confess that I don't get the talk about Plushenko "budgeting" his quads. He can do a quad in the team event. Then rest up for a week and do another one or two in the individual competition. It's not like you are only allowed a certain number in your career and are in danger of using up your quota. (Quads are a renewable resource. )

    The other thing is, I do not think it is necessary for Plushenko (or for Chan either) to worry about whether someone might do two quads in the short and four quads in the long, or something like that. No one has shown that he can do all that while still hitting his other elements, giving a convincing presentation, and not running out of gas at the end. IMHO it will not be the base value on paper that will win the Olympics, but rather excellent execution of your planned elements.
    The Team Event is scheduled 2/6, 2/8, & 2/9 with the Mens' SP on 2/6 & Mens' FS on 2/9. The Mens' individual competition is 2/13 SP, and 2/14 FS.

  3. #138
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    If he does 1 quad SP's and 1 or 2 quad LP's in both the team and Individual events I will be surprised! I just think he does quads in the individual event SP and LP. Only he will know how he feels after quads in Russian nationals and Europeans and then the team event and then the SP of the individual.

  4. #139
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    This conversation is so theoretical!!! Plushy begins the training in May. He will work off ice with his new choreographers, probably with famous ballet dancers and choreographers ( Patrick de Bana? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFUV8O5ma0c and Igor Zelensky-he had two similar intervertebral disc surgeries, like Plushy had). He will take on the ice in June. And we can't know what will be with his back.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    This conversation is so theoretical!!! Plushy begins the training in May. He will work off ice with his new choreographers, probably with famous ballet dancers and choreographers ( Patrick de Bana? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFUV8O5ma0c and Igor Zelensky-he had two similar intervertebral disc surgeries, like Plushy had). He will take on the ice in June. And we can't know what will be with his back.
    Very very theoretical! So true!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I agree with Orser in that I'm much more a fan of him as of last year than before. And also agree with Camerlengo that it's a shame he didn't show that before. I wouldn't say he's a much better or worse skater now than before (since he was likely capable of everything he did in 2012 back in 2010, if not more capable); I commend him for starting to show what he's capable of as a skater and not just as a jumper.
    I am not a huge fan of his 2010's programs but I love almost all his previous programs. Only in certain people's eyes he is only a jumper.

    But I can see why saying he is just a jumper is convenient especially now: before the injury, people can conveniently say he won because of his consistent jumps. At the same time forming the idea of "if he cannot jump well, he is just an average or even lower skater" in people's mind. Now he is injured, so probably he could not jump as well as before, hence he is merely an average skater now.

    Nevertheless, cannot wait for the summer to come so that we will know how well he recovers from the operation.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan66 View Post
    The Team Event is scheduled 2/6, 2/8, & 2/9 with the Mens' SP on 2/6 & Mens' FS on 2/9. The Mens' individual competition is 2/13 SP, and 2/14 FS.
    Oh. That's not good. Thank you for the information. That schedule gives an advantage to countries that have two strong men so they can switch off in the short and long programs.

  8. #143
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    In all honesty, probably not. He hasn't competed enough since the last games, and yes, his injuries have not helped. And unfortunately same goes for Weir and to an extent Lysacek.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Oh. That's not good. Thank you for the information. That schedule gives an advantage to countries that have two strong men so they can switch off in the short and long programs.
    And even more of an advantage to those who have no teams entered - or those in a team that do not have to perform in the team event. (For instance if a team has three spots, than at least one skater/team will be guaranteed not to have to participate.)

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    If they are smart, they will test him several times doing 4 programs in the Olympic's
    time frame. Sometimes "matter" wins out over "mind". I suspect that will be the case here.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    I am not a huge fan of his 2010's programs but I love almost all his previous programs. Only in certain people's eyes he is only a jumper.

    But I can see why saying he is just a jumper is convenient especially now: before the injury, people can conveniently say he won because of his consistent jumps. At the same time forming the idea of "if he cannot jump well, he is just an average or even lower skater" in people's mind. Now he is injured, so probably he could not jump as well as before, hence he is merely an average skater now.

    Nevertheless, cannot wait for the summer to come so that we will know how well he recovers from the operation.
    Yes, I agree. I love his programs, like many others. But yes, those programs were always very different from the North American perception. I really believe that the North- American style is not the only one good style.
    I want to see Plushenko on the ice, who is a little bit different from the others, who has kept the style and personality, but adapted to the new requirements as well. I do not want to see second-third Chan, and so on. This is very difficult. Look at Fernandez, Ten they skate in totally North-American style....

    And is he only a jumper? Sometimes I think, the North-American people don't know or don't remember his skating. They know the Godfather program in Torino, and his Tango Amore program in 2010, but no more, and they repeat what they read or heard somewhere.

    I can't wait this summer!

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    I am not a huge fan of his 2010's programs but I love almost all his previous programs. Only in certain people's eyes he is only a jumper.

    But I can see why saying he is just a jumper is convenient especially now: before the injury, people can conveniently say he won because of his consistent jumps. At the same time forming the idea of "if he cannot jump well, he is just an average or even lower skater" in people's mind. Now he is injured, so probably he could not jump as well as before, hence he is merely an average skater now.

    Nevertheless, cannot wait for the summer to come so that we will know how well he recovers from the operation.
    I say he's a jumper because jumps are critical to his performance because his choreography or the intricacy of his programs (particularly in 2010 and prior to that) wasn't nearly the level of the other guys. At that time, if you took out the jumps there really wouldn't be a whole lot left in his programs choreography-wise (though some of his spins were good, and his energy in footwork sequences is great even if the footwork itself isn't particularly complex). Interpretation is up to some people... I agree that he's expressive, but I'm personally not a fan of the winks or hip thrusts -- it's excessive and "exhibition"y. I get he's playing to the audience, but stuff like that ruins the interpretation and character of the program.

    They'll remember his skating for its high difficulty and consistent jumping more than for its complexity/interpretation. Although certainly in places outside of North America his style would be appreciated more. At risk of sounding pretentious, I think North American audiences are more attuned to subtlety (which could also come across as safe or boring if it's too subtle), whereas European audiences are fans of flamboyance and theatrics (which could also come across as over the top).

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Yes. In context of the thread title, those vying for the Olympic title can't be competitive without quads because there are far too many skaters who have also mastered the other elements and PCS as well as the quad. Playing it safe will not cut it anymore (I say that to Plushenko's competitors who previously lowered the content), and should top PCS earners like Hanyu/Fernandez/Chan/Takahashi have a clean SP with quads and their competitors don't, said competitors will face at least a 5-7 point disadvantage going into the FS. At least a quad attempt will be mandatory in the SP and LP in Sochi. Back in 2010 at the Olympics, most of the top 10 hadn't mastered the quad (arguably Lambiel, who struggled with 3A, and Plushenko were consistent and the only ones to attempt it in the SP). I have every confidence that Plushenko will incorporate quad attempts in both, should he be competing, as there's no way he (or anyone really) could contend without them.
    The only meanigful sentence is in italics. All the rest is ranting as usual. Guess what- eveyone knows that a quad attempt will be mandatory in the SP and LP in Sochi.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    but I'm personally not a fan of the winks or hip thrusts -- it's over the top and "exhibition"y. I get he's playing to the audience, but stuff like that ruins the interpretation and character of the program.
    I am personally not a fan of rolling eyes and robot-like skating. I get that butting the ice is inevitable for some skater but stuff like that suins the interpretation and character of the program.

    Then why my guy is not a World/Olympic champion?

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    The only meanigful sentence is in italics. All the rest is ranting as usual. Guess what- eveyone knows that a quad attempt will be mandatory in the SP and LP in Sochi.

    I am personally not a fan of rolling eyes and robot-like skating. I get that butting the ice is inevitable for some skater but stuff like that suins the interpretation and character of the program.

    Then why my guy is not a World/Olympic champion?
    And the only meaningful sentence of this is in italics, too.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    but I'm personally not a fan of the winks or hip thrusts -- it's excessive and "exhibition"y. I get he's playing to the audience, but stuff like that ruins the interpretation and character of the program.
    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I am personally not a fan of rolling eyes and robot-like skating. I get that butting the ice is inevitable for some skater but stuff like that suins the interpretation and character of the program.
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    And the only meaningful sentence of this is in italics, too.
    Case in point. So, two like sentences but someow only yours is the one that is meaninful. That is precisely what I am talking about. You think only you represent "meanigful". It's stupid enough to use biased views then constantly call them "meaningful"!


    Chan fans are so alike. Zzzz..

    Still no newly-brand trolling? For an off-season I am expecting more creativity that repeatedly rant about Vancouver-whatever in multiple Plu threads.

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