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Thread: Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    By "better than" on this thread we mean, "who is destined to skate better at the Sochi Olympics," right? Hmm.
    That's what I'm going by when I compare the current crop of skaters to each other. Like anything these are just predictions -- nobody would have expected Amodio or Suzuki to end up as poorly as they did at Worlds, just as I'm sure not a single person pegged Denis Ten to win silver.

    The thread title is "Can Evgeni win the Olympic title" - sure (but he'll need the other guys to bomb, which happened at 2013 Worlds, so it's indeed possible). Based on the rest of the field, is it likely that Evgeni will win the 2014 Olympic title? - in my opinion, definitely not as 2013 Worlds was probably an anomaly where all the top guys bombed. Does it matter if he loses the 2014 Olympic title? - I don't think so since he has nothing to prove having won 3 medals including a gold before.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    I totally agree his recent programs are much better than Tango Amore, personally I like them better than also the godfather (2006 version). But his earlier programs were still brilliant than most of the programs you are praising now (not Plushenko's ones but other "top" skaters') if only from the performing art point of view.
    You are totally correct! But a big problem is a belief From csg that all his 6.0 programs were worthless and all his second mark was just a jump bonus.

  3. #213
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    The speculations sound a like a moo point to me, after the surgery and his lack of training time now. I think Plush with his Rn and Euros 2012 performances started a nice built up for Sochi that was disturbed this year, so now I believe that if he skates at Sochi at all it will be a major comeback story on its own.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    You are totally correct! But a big problem is a belief From csg that all his 6.0 programs were worthless and all his second mark was just a jump bonus.
    I never said his 6.0 programs were worthless... I said that pre-IJS his expression and interpretation were decent (though not as good as Yagudin's) but his choreography has never been complex or difficult (save for a few footwork sequences), before Euros 2012. Once IJS came along his artistry and choreography actually deteriorated because he become so focused on his jumps. He's far more into the character and interpretation of his 2002 Carmen LP than his 2006 LP.

    The programs didn't really suffer though from a performance standpoint because he maintained his jumping consistency and it's hard to give somebody less PCS or artistic marks when they put out a clean skate. I'm curious as to how his fans view his Euros LP to his 2010 and 2006 Olympic LP, from a technical skating perspective. There's no question that his 2012 programs are far better choreographically and artistically than his programs in 2006/2010... so what would they have gotten back then - 6.2?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I never said his 6.0 programs were worthless... I said that pre-IJS his expression and interpretation were decent (though not as good as Yagudin's) but his choreography has never been complex or difficult (save for a few footwork sequences), before Euros 2012. Once IJS came along his artistry and choreography actually deteriorated because he become so focused on his jumps. He's far more into the character and interpretation of his 2002 Carmen LP than his 2006 LP.

    The programs didn't really suffer though from a performance standpoint because he maintained his jumping consistency and it's hard to give somebody less PCS or artistic marks when they put out a clean skate. I'm curious as to how his fans view his Euros LP to his 2010 and 2006 Olympic LP, from a technical skating perspective. There's no question that his 2012 programs are far better choreographically and artistically than his programs in 2006/2010... so what would they have gotten back then - 6.2?
    I like his 2006 EC performance although it was not perfect due to the fact he was sick and was exhausted after the skate. What I saw from that performance is a fighter who fought against his weak body and finish his skate cleanly. As for his 2010's EC's performance, I said before I am not a big fan of Tango amore (though I watched it live once in show, very exciting if only because it was skated by Plushenko), so no comments on that.

    And I like his post Carmen programs a lot, Adagio, Tango and flamenco, St. Petersburg 300, Nijinsky, Moonlight, and Godfather in 2004-5 season. They are art on ice.

    It is never fair to mark the old programs since the rules change all the time. But since you are so eager to diminish Plushenko's achievements by defining him only as a jumper, I guess that is why you are so eager to mark his old programs down to show that he is just an average skater comparing to other "top" skaters.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I never said his 6.0 programs were worthless... I said that pre-IJS his expression and interpretation were decent (though not as good as Yagudin's) but his choreography has never been complex or difficult (save for a few footwork sequences), before Euros 2012. Once IJS came along his artistry and choreography actually deteriorated because he become so focused on his jumps. He's far more into the character and interpretation of his 2002 Carmen LP than his 2006 LP.

    The programs didn't really suffer though from a performance standpoint because he maintained his jumping consistency and it's hard to give somebody less PCS or artistic marks when they put out a clean skate. I'm curious as to how his fans view his Euros LP to his 2010 and 2006 Olympic LP, from a technical skating perspective. There's no question that his 2012 programs are far better choreographically and artistically than his programs in 2006/2010... so what would they have gotten back then - 6.2?
    Yeah it's amazing how how the judges decided to throw out all the standards in judging 6.0 presentation just for plushenko. Everyone else in skating has one standard and for plushenko the judges were about using 6.0 in presentation as a jump bonus and charisma while skating bonus. Nothing else was necessary. And then in pcs everyone else must do ch in and tr and have skating skills but he only has performance so the judges decided to base all his pcs marks on performance because no in or tr or ch or ss! Amazing. That's s major legacy for plushenko all it's own! Having all the judges mark him easier and hold everyone else to higher standards. Throw out all the rules!!

    You are so overrating his euros 2012 lp as the Birth of a new plushenko never seen before that I think it's just ridiculous. I have watched his 2010 Olympics performance much more than his 2012 euros Performance. It was really good and more technically difficult than his euros 2012 performance. Maybe thats why he was smoother in presentation in 2012.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    I like his 2006 EC performance although it was not perfect due to the fact he was sick and was exhausted after the skate. What I saw from that performance is a fighter who fought against his weak body and finish his skate cleanly. As for his 2010's EC's performance, I said before I am not a big fan of Tango amore (though I watched it live once in show, very exciting if only because it was skated by Plushenko), so no comments on that.

    And I like his post Carmen programs a lot, Adagio, Tango and flamenco, St. Petersburg 300, Nijinsky, Moonlight, and Godfather in 2004-5 season. They are art on ice.

    It is never fair to mark the old programs since the rules change all the time. But since you are so eager to diminish Plushenko's achievements by defining him only as a jumper, I guess that is why you are so eager to mark his old programs down to show that he is just an average skater comparing to other "top" skaters.
    The last paragraph is so good! Right after I post something I see that you posted something much better!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    The speculations sound a like a moo point to me, after the surgery and his lack of training time now. I think Plush with his Rn and Euros 2012 performances started a nice built up for Sochi that was disturbed this year, so now I believe that if he skates at Sochi at all it will be a major comeback story on its own.
    I know! It's so almost unbelievable what with the spinal disc replacement that him making Sochi won't be it's own thing! First skater ever with this procedure. It's a new procedure anyway!

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I never said his 6.0 programs were worthless... I said that pre-IJS his expression and interpretation were decent (though not as good as Yagudin's) but his choreography has never been complex or difficult (save for a few footwork sequences), before Euros 2012. Once IJS came along his artistry and choreography actually deteriorated because he become so focused on his jumps. He's far more into the character and interpretation of his 2002 Carmen LP than his 2006 LP.
    I'm bored. In an another thread we already talked this matter. If you compare their presentation marks, Plushenko is clearly the winner. Plushy was the youngest male skater ever, who received 6.0. He received cca 70 60s before the IJS was introduced. He beat Yagudin with second marks, not technical points. The explanation is so simply, Yagudin lived in North-Am for 7 years, he competed in SA and SC many times, he won his olympic gold medal in US, when he retired he competed on professional competitions many times there. And he retired so early, in americans minds he is the legend who beat Plush. Not to mention Plushy skates in Russian style, and Yagudin not.
    These are parts of the Russian documentary on Plushy, Portrait of the star:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB2PDzouzSY Plushenko vs Yagudin
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qdWHrP37zU Plushenko vs Yagudin
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLcyg-KW3I0 Artist on ice
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBqGEGsRigc Artist on ice

    This is from Russian point of view, opinions of skaters, old skaters, journalists.
    _________

    The Tango Amore isn't my favorite program, but he "blew up" the arenas with it, not once.

    "About Plushy's performance of Tango Amore in Beijing last year, I want to mention one of the most wonderful compliments to Plushy I've ever read, from a Chinese Weir fan (who did not know much about Plushy before): she said that as soon as he came out onto the ice, she literally felt the air pressure change, a kind of mysterious energy physically pushing against her chest, something that could only be described as an "aura", and all of a sudden she began to see how things like the Bermuda Triangle and other strange phenomena could be possible, because there are no other explanations for powers like this!
    In hindsight, Tango Amore might be the right choice for him at that time. It is a program that he felt comfortable with, the style is very original and mature, you don't get to see skaters do a very sensual and sexy program in competition that often

    And as an exhibition program, oh boy, the audience just loves it! He almost blew 18,000 people off with that program in Artistry On Ice last year. I have read nothing but raving review after that performance in China, people calling it "the highlight of the night", and "the perfect combination of dancing and music".

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    I'm bored.
    CSG sucks with his trollish comparison of Plu 2003 and the field of 2013, with different rules, etc. I too want to troll!


    Can Plu win in Sochi?
    -Sure. Who else. He knows how to stand on his feet after landing, he has the best posture ever, with mind-blowing command of ice and the charisma of a conqueror. The home ice and public will be the part of his PCS with Putin as a cheerleader.

    Can Chan win in Sochi?
    -Sure. Granted. He is the most corrupted skater in fs history in terms of unfair wins. Retiring David Dore will get his farewell gift. Never mind that the service of zamboni won't be required since Patrick's butt will do all work.

    Can Dai win in Sochi?
    -Sure. What a stupid question. The people's champion is the best artistic skater ever with charming personality that doesn't annoy anyone except Chan ubers and JSF.

    Can Hanyu win in Sochi?
    -Sure. With so many skaters possibly retiring, Japan is in desperate need of a new star. Therefore TV Tokyo, Fuji TV, NHK and Asahi TV will cooperate their assets to bribe ISU judges handsomely as only money can do.

    Can Javi win in Sochi?
    -Sure. He is Orser pet-boy. At the same time he is cute and not a jerk. Also, he is a Euro which is awesome a priori.

    Can Ten win in Sochi?
    -Sure. Because in this case no ISU monster members will get the main prize.

    (be continued)

  11. #221
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    You have nailed it let`s talk!

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    CSG sucks with his trollish comparison of Plu 2003 and the field of 2013, with different rules, etc. I too want to troll!


    Can Plu win in Sochi?
    -Sure. Who else. He knows how to stand on his feet after landing, he has the best posture ever, with mind-blowing command of ice and the charisma of a conqueror. The home ice and public will be the part of his PCS with Putin as a cheerleader.

    Can Chan win in Sochi?
    -Sure. Granted. He is the most corrupted skater in fs history in terms of unfair wins. Retiring David Dore will get his farewell gift. Never mind that the service of zamboni won't be required since Patrick's butt will do all work.

    Can Dai win in Sochi?
    -Sure. What a stupid question. The people's champion is the best artistic skater ever with charming personality that doesn't annoy anyone except Chan ubers and JSF.

    Can Hanyu win in Sochi?
    -Sure. With so many skaters possibly retiring, Japan is in desperate need of a new star. Therefore TV Tokyo, Fuji TV, NHK and Asahi TV will cooperate their assets to bribe ISU judges handsomely as only money can do.

    Can Javi win in Sochi?
    -Sure. He is Orser pet-boy. At the same time he is cute and not a jerk. Also, he is a Euro which is awesome a priori.

    Can Ten win in Sochi?
    -Sure. Because in this case no ISU monster members will get the main prize.

    (be continued)
    Awww but you forgot one. Can Reynolds win in Sochi,

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Can Plu win in Sochi?
    -Sure. Who else. He knows how to stand on his feet after landing, he has the best posture ever, with mind-blowing command of ice and the charisma of a conqueror. The home ice and public will be the part of his PCS with Putin as a cheerleader.
    Best posture ever?! He's often hunched when he strokes backwards, which is the vast majority of the stroking in his programs.... Takahashi/Ten/Chan/Yagudin/Buttle/Lambiel all have much better posture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Best posture ever?! He's often hunched when he strokes backwards, which is the vast majority of the stroking in his programs.... Takahashi/Ten/Chan/Yagudin/Buttle/Lambiel all have much better posture.
    Definition of POSTURE
    a : the position or bearing of the body whether characteristic or assumed for a special purpose.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    Definition of POSTURE
    a : the position or bearing of the body whether characteristic or assumed for a special purpose.
    That's the definition of posture, yes. But I'm taking about good posture in a figure skating context ("carriage" if you will). When he's stroking he's leaned over which is poorer posture compared to other skaters who stroke around more upright. Part of this could be due to him looking down a lot when stalking his jumps - note his difference in posture when he's "performing" or having moments of expression and his posture when stroking around into jumps. Overall, his posture is good and if you look at his Euros 2013 SP vs. his 2010 Olympics LP his basic stroking posture has improved, but he certainly isn't even close to having the "best posture ever" of any man.

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