Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title? | Page 16 | Golden Skate

Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

yaya124

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
I believe that Yagudin vs. Plushenko topic has turned in full force from the long post #219 with comprehensive videos in responding to post #214 where CDG used, "(though not as good as Yagudin's)".:laugh::laugh::laugh: It appeared to me that Plushy ubers are so afraid of the mentioning of Yagudin's name, and rush to discredit him wherever it appears in relation to Plushenko.:laugh:

Isn't that entertaining?!:popcorn:

Not afraid but get bored about every time when Plushenko is mentioned, someone has to jump out to say, hey Yagudin is better. Now of course with CSG, it seems Plushenko is just an average skater with very good jumping technique, so you wonder why Plushenko fans are not so chilled about it.

Personally I have no feeling about Yagudin's skating, his style is very good but not unique, maybe that is why I do not particular love his style. And I agree that in the competition when he won, he was better than Plushenko (in those competitions).

Their rivalry was so heated up and fans tend to argue who is better. Of course Yagudin's fans will say Yagudin was better, and Plushenko's fans would say the opposite, which is normal. And nobody really argue Yagudin's win in 2002, he was better in that competition, no doubt. What causes the argument is that in some people's mind, Yagudin is forever better than Plushenko because he beat him in 2002. But the fact is that when they were competed together, Plushenko is 3 years younger than Yagudin, something like Hanyu to Patrick, with the age difference and Yagudin in his prime, Plushenko is able to be the equal rivalry (and was able to win over), this is something extraordinary. Plushenko's artistry evolves continuously (not strictly from skating point of view, but from performing art in general) while keeping his technical ability at high level even today (if he is healthy). But when some people assume that Yagudin would get better and better (or other skaters) so that he would dominate if he could continue competing, they forget that Plushenko can also get better (in fact he did get better after Yagudin retires).

So not afraid of dropping Yagudin's name, but a bit bored at the assumption made.
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Wait a minute! Are we talking about Takahashi's skating or are we talking about the music he skated to? Now isn't it clear who is desperate?:laugh:
You are of course. And why to wait if you chose to separate music from the skating, which is actually a norm for a fan of skater who doesn't hear/feel the music. But for all the rest it doesn't work like this because music is skating and skating is music. So, not "we", but I was talking about music=skating. :popcorn:

Plushenko of 2002 would have beaten Plush of 2006, Plush of 2010, Lysacek of 2010 and probably anyone in Sochi
Hehe. Tarasova said pretty much the same in her recent interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqLzx1j6NXE

"They (Plu and Yag) raised Men's fs to the height which the current field is only trying to reach." :p
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
You are of course. And why to wait if you chose to separate music from the skating, which is actually a norm for a fan of skater who doesn't hear/feel the music. But for all the rest it doesn't work like this because music is skating and skating is music. So, not "we", but I was talking about music=skating. :popcorn:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:Sure! Different music = same approach in skating.:laugh:
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Not afraid but get bored about every time when Plushenko is mentioned, someone has to jump out to say, hey Yagudin is better. Now of course with CSG, it seems Plushenko is just an average skater with very good jumping technique, so you wonder why Plushenko fans are not so chilled about it.

Personally I have no feeling about Yagudin's skating, his style is very good but not unique, maybe that is why I do not particular love his style. And I agree that in the competition when he won, he was better than Plushenko (in those competitions).

Their rivalry was so heated up and fans tend to argue who is better. Of course Yagudin's fans will say Yagudin was better, and Plushenko's fans would say the opposite, which is normal. And nobody really argue Yagudin's win in 2002, he was better in that competition, no doubt. What causes the argument is that in some people's mind, Yagudin is forever better than Plushenko because he beat him in 2002. But the fact is that when they were competed together, Plushenko is 3 years younger than Yagudin, something like Hanyu to Patrick, with the age difference and Yagudin in his prime, Plushenko is able to be the equal rivalry (and was able to win over), this is something extraordinary. Plushenko's artistry evolves continuously (not strictly from skating point of view, but from performing art in general) while keeping his technical ability at high level even today (if he is healthy). But when some people assume that Yagudin would get better and better (or other skaters) so that he would dominate if he could continue competing, they forget that Plushenko can also get better (in fact he did get better after Yagudin retires).

So not afraid of dropping Yagudin's name, but a bit bored at the assumption made.

Very true! The bringing up of Yagudin is about things like Yagudin will always be better and that Yagudin was the only one who made Plushenko's skating worthwhile? The whole "Yagudin left so Plushenko stopped trying and just coasted with no effort at all and never did anything worthy!" So Therefore not only was Yagudin good and great he dictated the behavior the person who would go on to dominate the quad after Yagudin had to retire! It's all about the forever glorification of yagudin not only through his own success but the entired behavior of Plushneko!!
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Not afraid but get bored about every time when Plushenko is mentioned, someone has to jump out to say, hey Yagudin is better. Now of course with CSG, it seems Plushenko is just an average skater with very good jumping technique, so you wonder why Plushenko fans are not so chilled about it.

Personally I have no feeling about Yagudin's skating, his style is very good but not unique, maybe that is why I do not particular love his style. And I agree that in the competition when he won, he was better than Plushenko (in those competitions).

Their rivalry was so heated up and fans tend to argue who is better. Of course Yagudin's fans will say Yagudin was better, and Plushenko's fans would say the opposite, which is normal. And nobody really argue Yagudin's win in 2002, he was better in that competition, no doubt. What causes the argument is that in some people's mind, Yagudin is forever better than Plushenko because he beat him in 2002. But the fact is that when they were competed together, Plushenko is 3 years younger than Yagudin, something like Hanyu to Patrick, with the age difference and Yagudin in his prime, Plushenko is able to be the equal rivalry (and was able to win over), this is something extraordinary. Plushenko's artistry evolves continuously (not strictly from skating point of view, but from performing art in general) while keeping his technical ability at high level even today (if he is healthy). But when some people assume that Yagudin would get better and better (or other skaters) so that he would dominate if he could continue competing, they forget that Plushenko can also get better (in fact he did get better after Yagudin retires).

So not afraid of dropping Yagudin's name, but a bit bored at the assumption made.

It goes both ways, yaya. I do not agree with CDG on many his regards on Plushenko. But for Plushenko fans to go out in full force and say that in Plushenko vs. Yagudin era, Plushenko was better, of course, it will invite the opposit opinions. And to use Plushenko's 15 years record against Yagudin's unfortunate 5 years record is disheartening to say the least. That was not Plushenko fans triumph. That was unfair comparason by Plushenko ubers.

Very true! The bringing up of Yagudin is about things like Yagudin will always be better and that Yagudin was the only one who made Plushenko's skating worthwhile? The whole "Yagudin left so Plushenko stopped trying and just coasted with no effort at all and never did anything worthy!" So Therefore not only was Yagudin good and great he dictated the behavior the person who would go on to dominate the quad after Yagudin had to retire! It's all about the forever glorification of yagudin not only through his own success but the entired behavior of Plushneko!!

It has some truth in it, isn't it?;)
 

yaya124

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
It goes both ways, yaya. I do not agree with CDG on many his regards on Plushenko. But for Plushenko fans to go out in full force and say that in Plushenko vs. Yagudin era, Plushenko was better. And to use Plushenko's 15 years record against Yagudin's unfortunate 5 years record is disheartening to say the least. That was not Plushenko fans triumph. That was unfair comparason by Plushenko ubers.



It has some truth in it, isn't it?;)

Yes, I know it goes both ways, that is why you keep arguing with Plushyfan and I keep arguing with some of your points or arguing in general:laugh:

And no, it is true only in some people's mind. (But it would be fair to say that Plushenko stopped improving during his retirement between 2006-2009, and it is also true that he did not try to add new things before 2006 Olympics (2005). But it is perfectly understandable since he has injuries and had two operation done).
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
I never was able to see Yagudin as an artistic skater (far from it!), but he was fortunate to have the benefit of good Tarasova/Morozov choreography. I always thought in those days that if Plushenko had had a choreography like the ones Yagudin skated to, he would not have been beaten by Yagudin.
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
It goes both ways, yaya. I do not agree with CDG on many his regards on Plushenko. But for Plushenko fans to go out in full force and say that in Plushenko vs. Yagudin era, Plushenko was better, of course, it will invite the opposit opinions. And to use Plushenko's 15 years record against Yagudin's unfortunate 5 years record is disheartening to say the least. That was not Plushenko fans triumph. That was unfair comparason by Plushenko ubers.



It has some truth in it, isn't it?;)

No- none!
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I never was able to see Yagudin as an artistic skater (far from it!), but he was fortunate to have the benefit of good Tarasova/Morozov choreography. I always thought in those days that if Plushenko had had a choreography like the ones Yagudin skated to, he would not have been beaten by Yagudin.

he would've In SLC because he fell in the SP and then just 1999 or 2000. That is when Yagudin beat plushenko when they were teens or just plushenko was a teen.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Continue your good work, Plushyfan and the co. !;)

What? I don't know Yaya! I never met with her in Plushy's forum. You're wrong. I don't like this, Bluebonnet...and I wasn't the one who first mentioned the Yagudin's name and Plushy abilities in this thread.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
he would've In SLC because he fell in the SP and then just 1999 or 2000. That is when Yagudin beat plushenko when they were teens or just plushenko was a teen.

Plushenko was injured in SLC, wasn´t he? Anyway, in my opinion at GPF 2001 Yagudin won, because he had better programmes.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Plushenko was injured in SLC, wasn´t he? Anyway, in my opinion at GPF 2001 Yagudin won, because he had better programmes.

No, he wasn't injured. He was in perfect shape, but he did that the big mistake, and as he said, his team also made some mistakes.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
What? I don't know Yaya! I never met her in Plushy's forum. You're wrong. I don't like this, Bluebonnet...

:confused:

I don't go to any Plushy fan forums. I was only talking about this thread and this thread alone.

Well, never mind. I've realized that my English is not good, neither do yours. So forget about that point.

Plushenko of 2002 would have beaten Plush of 2006, Plush of 2010, Lysacek of 2010 and probably anyone in Sochi

This is actually very good point! It is possible. But it is also possible that in Sochi, someone might skate lights out and beats Lysacek of 2010, Plushenko of 2010, Plushenko of 2006, and as well as Plushenko of 2002.;)
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Back to the subject of the thread, I think we have to acknowledge that we have the most inconsistent group of men at the top (Chan, Hanyu, Dai, Jav, and Ten) in quite some time. Plushenko will need mistakes from some of these guys to win, but there's a good chance that they ALL will make major mistakes in Sochi. The big question mark is Plushenko's health, but if he can regain his jumps and skate two CLEAN programs, I think he will win. I think this because I expect that no one else in the top 5 will be clean; they aren't clean in big events, and they are rarely clean in less important events too.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
No, he wasn't injured. He was in perfect shape, but he did that the big mistake, and as he said, his team also made some mistakes.

Plushenko had sprained his ankle at GPF2001, and was injured with hernia problems that caused him to withdraw from Euros, also probably he wanted to change his Lp and not face Yags before Olys, anyway he was not in perfect shape.
 
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CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I'm saying if not for his injury that ended his career Yagudin would have continued to get better. He was only 21 when he won in SLC IN 2002.

Yes, based on his capability he likely would have if he didn't have that congenital hip disorder, so it's kinda sad/hypocritical to see Plushy ubers making snarky remarks about Yagudin not being the skater today that he was in 2002 (ironically, these same people are probably the quickest to attribute Plushenko's disastrous 2013 Euros SP to injury).
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Yes, based on his capability he likely would have if he didn't have that congenital hip disorder, so it's kinda sad/hypocritical to see Plushy ubers making snarky remarks about Yagudin not being the skater today that he was in 2002 (ironically, these same people are probably the quickest to attribute Plushenko's disastrous 2013 Euros SP to injury).

Lol well why else would plushenkos euros sp be a disaster? Because he's a headcase? Lol and lmao.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Lol well why else would plushenkos euros sp be a disaster? Because he's a headcase? Lol and lmao.

He wasn't injured at Japan Open and had a disastrous freeskate. Saying he was with injury is certainly legitimate but he was landing his 3Z-3T and 3A in practice, and quite smoothly, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NwwYUcARBc I don't question his injury, but he could have still skated well. If Plushenko was bombing practices and not attempting or cleanly executing his 3Z-3T or 3A, then I could understand his injury as a greater contribution to his poor performance.

Anyways, my point was that Plushenko's fans are all over Yagudin no longer being a competitive skater, in spite of career-ending injury, but then defend Plushenko doing poorly as due to injury (even when practice video shows that he was still easily landing the jumps he attempted in his SP that he failed to execute).

I think his Euros SP was a disaster, in part due to injury, but also due to his jumping not being as reliable as it has been in the past.

I hope that every time Plushenko makes a major mistake people (i.e. his fans) don't immediately rush to defend him as "Oh, he's injured. Oh, he's coming back from injury.", etc. It doesn't matter if you're injured since what you do on the ice matters (and skaters perform with injuries all the time)... it might be a reason, but it shouldn't be an excuse. Nobody defended (nor should defend) Stojko's 1998 silver and not gold medal as him being injured and suggesting if he weren't injured he would have beaten Kulik. Ice is slippery too... so people make mistakes, even somebody who's been as consistent in the past as Plushenko. My personal view is that his body isn't what it used to be so even with good technique, he's unable to get the spring and cleanliness on his jumps that he once had (for example, his 3A in his Euros SP had a lean, not unlike his 2010 Olympic LP, but back then he had more capability to save the jump). But on the other hand, he could have just had an off day. It happens.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I agree with Driving Miss Daisy. To be sure, it's great fun to try to bait fans of this skater and that, but...to get back to the business at hand, a healthy and determined Plushenko has as good a chance as anyone to win an Olympic medal. Others may have lots of good stuff planned, but if they don't deliver it, they can't necessarily count on the judging to bail them out.
 
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