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Thread: Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I believe that Yagudin vs. Plushenko topic has turned in full force from the long post #219 with comprehensive videos in responding to post #214 where CDG used, "(though not as good as Yagudin's)". It appeared to me that Plushy ubers are so afraid of the mentioning of Yagudin's name, and rush to discredit him wherever it appears in relation to Plushenko.

    Isn't that entertaining?!
    Not afraid but get bored about every time when Plushenko is mentioned, someone has to jump out to say, hey Yagudin is better. Now of course with CSG, it seems Plushenko is just an average skater with very good jumping technique, so you wonder why Plushenko fans are not so chilled about it.

    Personally I have no feeling about Yagudin's skating, his style is very good but not unique, maybe that is why I do not particular love his style. And I agree that in the competition when he won, he was better than Plushenko (in those competitions).

    Their rivalry was so heated up and fans tend to argue who is better. Of course Yagudin's fans will say Yagudin was better, and Plushenko's fans would say the opposite, which is normal. And nobody really argue Yagudin's win in 2002, he was better in that competition, no doubt. What causes the argument is that in some people's mind, Yagudin is forever better than Plushenko because he beat him in 2002. But the fact is that when they were competed together, Plushenko is 3 years younger than Yagudin, something like Hanyu to Patrick, with the age difference and Yagudin in his prime, Plushenko is able to be the equal rivalry (and was able to win over), this is something extraordinary. Plushenko's artistry evolves continuously (not strictly from skating point of view, but from performing art in general) while keeping his technical ability at high level even today (if he is healthy). But when some people assume that Yagudin would get better and better (or other skaters) so that he would dominate if he could continue competing, they forget that Plushenko can also get better (in fact he did get better after Yagudin retires).

    So not afraid of dropping Yagudin's name, but a bit bored at the assumption made.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Wait a minute! Are we talking about Takahashi's skating or are we talking about the music he skated to? Now isn't it clear who is desperate?
    You are of course. And why to wait if you chose to separate music from the skating, which is actually a norm for a fan of skater who doesn't hear/feel the music. But for all the rest it doesn't work like this because music is skating and skating is music. So, not "we", but I was talking about music=skating.

    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Plushenko of 2002 would have beaten Plush of 2006, Plush of 2010, Lysacek of 2010 and probably anyone in Sochi
    Hehe. Tarasova said pretty much the same in her recent interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqLzx1j6NXE

    "They (Plu and Yag) raised Men's fs to the height which the current field is only trying to reach."

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    You are of course. And why to wait if you chose to separate music from the skating, which is actually a norm for a fan of skater who doesn't hear/feel the music. But for all the rest it doesn't work like this because music is skating and skating is music. So, not "we", but I was talking about music=skating.
    Sure! Different music = same approach in skating.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    Not afraid but get bored about every time when Plushenko is mentioned, someone has to jump out to say, hey Yagudin is better. Now of course with CSG, it seems Plushenko is just an average skater with very good jumping technique, so you wonder why Plushenko fans are not so chilled about it.

    Personally I have no feeling about Yagudin's skating, his style is very good but not unique, maybe that is why I do not particular love his style. And I agree that in the competition when he won, he was better than Plushenko (in those competitions).

    Their rivalry was so heated up and fans tend to argue who is better. Of course Yagudin's fans will say Yagudin was better, and Plushenko's fans would say the opposite, which is normal. And nobody really argue Yagudin's win in 2002, he was better in that competition, no doubt. What causes the argument is that in some people's mind, Yagudin is forever better than Plushenko because he beat him in 2002. But the fact is that when they were competed together, Plushenko is 3 years younger than Yagudin, something like Hanyu to Patrick, with the age difference and Yagudin in his prime, Plushenko is able to be the equal rivalry (and was able to win over), this is something extraordinary. Plushenko's artistry evolves continuously (not strictly from skating point of view, but from performing art in general) while keeping his technical ability at high level even today (if he is healthy). But when some people assume that Yagudin would get better and better (or other skaters) so that he would dominate if he could continue competing, they forget that Plushenko can also get better (in fact he did get better after Yagudin retires).

    So not afraid of dropping Yagudin's name, but a bit bored at the assumption made.
    Very true! The bringing up of Yagudin is about things like Yagudin will always be better and that Yagudin was the only one who made Plushenko's skating worthwhile? The whole "Yagudin left so Plushenko stopped trying and just coasted with no effort at all and never did anything worthy!" So Therefore not only was Yagudin good and great he dictated the behavior the person who would go on to dominate the quad after Yagudin had to retire! It's all about the forever glorification of yagudin not only through his own success but the entired behavior of Plushneko!!

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    Not afraid but get bored about every time when Plushenko is mentioned, someone has to jump out to say, hey Yagudin is better. Now of course with CSG, it seems Plushenko is just an average skater with very good jumping technique, so you wonder why Plushenko fans are not so chilled about it.

    Personally I have no feeling about Yagudin's skating, his style is very good but not unique, maybe that is why I do not particular love his style. And I agree that in the competition when he won, he was better than Plushenko (in those competitions).

    Their rivalry was so heated up and fans tend to argue who is better. Of course Yagudin's fans will say Yagudin was better, and Plushenko's fans would say the opposite, which is normal. And nobody really argue Yagudin's win in 2002, he was better in that competition, no doubt. What causes the argument is that in some people's mind, Yagudin is forever better than Plushenko because he beat him in 2002. But the fact is that when they were competed together, Plushenko is 3 years younger than Yagudin, something like Hanyu to Patrick, with the age difference and Yagudin in his prime, Plushenko is able to be the equal rivalry (and was able to win over), this is something extraordinary. Plushenko's artistry evolves continuously (not strictly from skating point of view, but from performing art in general) while keeping his technical ability at high level even today (if he is healthy). But when some people assume that Yagudin would get better and better (or other skaters) so that he would dominate if he could continue competing, they forget that Plushenko can also get better (in fact he did get better after Yagudin retires).

    So not afraid of dropping Yagudin's name, but a bit bored at the assumption made.
    It goes both ways, yaya. I do not agree with CDG on many his regards on Plushenko. But for Plushenko fans to go out in full force and say that in Plushenko vs. Yagudin era, Plushenko was better, of course, it will invite the opposit opinions. And to use Plushenko's 15 years record against Yagudin's unfortunate 5 years record is disheartening to say the least. That was not Plushenko fans triumph. That was unfair comparason by Plushenko ubers.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Very true! The bringing up of Yagudin is about things like Yagudin will always be better and that Yagudin was the only one who made Plushenko's skating worthwhile? The whole "Yagudin left so Plushenko stopped trying and just coasted with no effort at all and never did anything worthy!" So Therefore not only was Yagudin good and great he dictated the behavior the person who would go on to dominate the quad after Yagudin had to retire! It's all about the forever glorification of yagudin not only through his own success but the entired behavior of Plushneko!!
    It has some truth in it, isn't it?

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    It goes both ways, yaya. I do not agree with CDG on many his regards on Plushenko. But for Plushenko fans to go out in full force and say that in Plushenko vs. Yagudin era, Plushenko was better. And to use Plushenko's 15 years record against Yagudin's unfortunate 5 years record is disheartening to say the least. That was not Plushenko fans triumph. That was unfair comparason by Plushenko ubers.



    It has some truth in it, isn't it?
    Yes, I know it goes both ways, that is why you keep arguing with Plushyfan and I keep arguing with some of your points or arguing in general

    And no, it is true only in some people's mind. (But it would be fair to say that Plushenko stopped improving during his retirement between 2006-2009, and it is also true that he did not try to add new things before 2006 Olympics (2005). But it is perfectly understandable since he has injuries and had two operation done).

  7. #307
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    I never was able to see Yagudin as an artistic skater (far from it!), but he was fortunate to have the benefit of good Tarasova/Morozov choreography. I always thought in those days that if Plushenko had had a choreography like the ones Yagudin skated to, he would not have been beaten by Yagudin.

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    Tatiana Tarasova speaks about Yagudin and Plushenko.

    http://tvrain.ru/articles/tatjana_ta...chenko-342512/

    And about Plushenko's qualification for Sochi.

    http://www.championat.com/olympic14/...olimpiadu.html


  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    It goes both ways, yaya. I do not agree with CDG on many his regards on Plushenko. But for Plushenko fans to go out in full force and say that in Plushenko vs. Yagudin era, Plushenko was better, of course, it will invite the opposit opinions. And to use Plushenko's 15 years record against Yagudin's unfortunate 5 years record is disheartening to say the least. That was not Plushenko fans triumph. That was unfair comparason by Plushenko ubers.



    It has some truth in it, isn't it?
    No- none!

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    I never was able to see Yagudin as an artistic skater (far from it!), but he was fortunate to have the benefit of good Tarasova/Morozov choreography. I always thought in those days that if Plushenko had had a choreography like the ones Yagudin skated to, he would not have been beaten by Yagudin.
    he would've In SLC because he fell in the SP and then just 1999 or 2000. That is when Yagudin beat plushenko when they were teens or just plushenko was a teen.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post

    Continue your good work, Plushyfan and the co. !
    What? I don't know Yaya! I never met with her in Plushy's forum. You're wrong. I don't like this, Bluebonnet...and I wasn't the one who first mentioned the Yagudin's name and Plushy abilities in this thread.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    he would've In SLC because he fell in the SP and then just 1999 or 2000. That is when Yagudin beat plushenko when they were teens or just plushenko was a teen.
    Plushenko was injured in SLC, wasn´t he? Anyway, in my opinion at GPF 2001 Yagudin won, because he had better programmes.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Plushenko was injured in SLC, wasn´t he? Anyway, in my opinion at GPF 2001 Yagudin won, because he had better programmes.
    No, he wasn't injured. He was in perfect shape, but he did that the big mistake, and as he said, his team also made some mistakes.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    What? I don't know Yaya! I never met her in Plushy's forum. You're wrong. I don't like this, Bluebonnet...


    I don't go to any Plushy fan forums. I was only talking about this thread and this thread alone.

    Well, never mind. I've realized that my English is not good, neither do yours. So forget about that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Plushenko of 2002 would have beaten Plush of 2006, Plush of 2010, Lysacek of 2010 and probably anyone in Sochi
    This is actually very good point! It is possible. But it is also possible that in Sochi, someone might skate lights out and beats Lysacek of 2010, Plushenko of 2010, Plushenko of 2006, and as well as Plushenko of 2002.

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    Back to the subject of the thread, I think we have to acknowledge that we have the most inconsistent group of men at the top (Chan, Hanyu, Dai, Jav, and Ten) in quite some time. Plushenko will need mistakes from some of these guys to win, but there's a good chance that they ALL will make major mistakes in Sochi. The big question mark is Plushenko's health, but if he can regain his jumps and skate two CLEAN programs, I think he will win. I think this because I expect that no one else in the top 5 will be clean; they aren't clean in big events, and they are rarely clean in less important events too.

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