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Thread: Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

  1. #316
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    No, he wasn't injured. He was in perfect shape, but he did that the big mistake, and as he said, his team also made some mistakes.
    Plushenko had sprained his ankle at GPF2001, and was injured with hernia problems that caused him to withdraw from Euros, also probably he wanted to change his Lp and not face Yags before Olys, anyway he was not in perfect shape.
    Last edited by seniorita; 05-01-2013 at 03:41 PM.

  2. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    I'm saying if not for his injury that ended his career Yagudin would have continued to get better. He was only 21 when he won in SLC IN 2002.
    Yes, based on his capability he likely would have if he didn't have that congenital hip disorder, so it's kinda sad/hypocritical to see Plushy ubers making snarky remarks about Yagudin not being the skater today that he was in 2002 (ironically, these same people are probably the quickest to attribute Plushenko's disastrous 2013 Euros SP to injury).

  3. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Yes, based on his capability he likely would have if he didn't have that congenital hip disorder, so it's kinda sad/hypocritical to see Plushy ubers making snarky remarks about Yagudin not being the skater today that he was in 2002 (ironically, these same people are probably the quickest to attribute Plushenko's disastrous 2013 Euros SP to injury).
    Lol well why else would plushenkos euros sp be a disaster? Because he's a headcase? Lol and lmao.

  4. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Lol well why else would plushenkos euros sp be a disaster? Because he's a headcase? Lol and lmao.
    He wasn't injured at Japan Open and had a disastrous freeskate. Saying he was with injury is certainly legitimate but he was landing his 3Z-3T and 3A in practice, and quite smoothly, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NwwYUcARBc I don't question his injury, but he could have still skated well. If Plushenko was bombing practices and not attempting or cleanly executing his 3Z-3T or 3A, then I could understand his injury as a greater contribution to his poor performance.

    Anyways, my point was that Plushenko's fans are all over Yagudin no longer being a competitive skater, in spite of career-ending injury, but then defend Plushenko doing poorly as due to injury (even when practice video shows that he was still easily landing the jumps he attempted in his SP that he failed to execute).

    I think his Euros SP was a disaster, in part due to injury, but also due to his jumping not being as reliable as it has been in the past.

    I hope that every time Plushenko makes a major mistake people (i.e. his fans) don't immediately rush to defend him as "Oh, he's injured. Oh, he's coming back from injury.", etc. It doesn't matter if you're injured since what you do on the ice matters (and skaters perform with injuries all the time)... it might be a reason, but it shouldn't be an excuse. Nobody defended (nor should defend) Stojko's 1998 silver and not gold medal as him being injured and suggesting if he weren't injured he would have beaten Kulik. Ice is slippery too... so people make mistakes, even somebody who's been as consistent in the past as Plushenko. My personal view is that his body isn't what it used to be so even with good technique, he's unable to get the spring and cleanliness on his jumps that he once had (for example, his 3A in his Euros SP had a lean, not unlike his 2010 Olympic LP, but back then he had more capability to save the jump). But on the other hand, he could have just had an off day. It happens.

  5. #320
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    I agree with Driving Miss Daisy. To be sure, it's great fun to try to bait fans of this skater and that, but...to get back to the business at hand, a healthy and determined Plushenko has as good a chance as anyone to win an Olympic medal. Others may have lots of good stuff planned, but if they don't deliver it, they can't necessarily count on the judging to bail them out.
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-01-2013 at 08:04 PM.

  6. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    He wasn't injured at Japan Open and had a disastrous freeskate. Saying he was with injury is certainly legitimate but he was landing his 3Z-3T and 3A in practice, and quite smoothly, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NwwYUcARBc I don't question his injury, but he could have still skated well. If Plushenko was bombing practices and not attempting or cleanly executing his 3Z-3T or 3A, then I could understand his injury as a greater contribution to his poor performance.

    Anyways, my point was that Plushenko's fans are all over Yagudin no longer being a competitive skater, in spite of career-ending injury, but then defend Plushenko doing poorly as due to injury (even when practice video shows that he was still easily landing the jumps he attempted in his SP that he failed to execute).

    I think his Euros SP was a disaster, in part due to injury, but also due to his jumping not being as reliable as it has been in the past.

    I hope that every time Plushenko makes a major mistake people (i.e. his fans) don't immediately rush to defend him as "Oh, he's injured. Oh, he's coming back from injury.", etc. It doesn't matter if you're injured since what you do on the ice matters (and skaters perform with injuries all the time)... it might be a reason, but it shouldn't be an excuse. Nobody defended (nor should defend) Stojko's 1998 silver and not gold medal as him being injured and suggesting if he weren't injured he would have beaten Kulik. Ice is slippery too... so people make mistakes, even somebody who's been as consistent in the past as Plushenko. My personal view is that his body isn't what it used to be so even with good technique, he's unable to get the spring and cleanliness on his jumps that he once had (for example, his 3A in his Euros SP had a lean, not unlike his 2010 Olympic LP, but back then he had more capability to save the jump). But on the other hand, he could have just had an off day. It happens.
    I don't agree there was ever a point in the recent season where plushenko wasn't injured. The back thing just got worse and worse. Even after the practices and the warmups with isolated jumps.

    I agree that age could and maybe has reduced jump reliability. That is just a fact of nature regarding all skaters.

    That is a big question of Sochi! Even with the disc replacement which was never done before on a skater you still have the knee issue? The knee issue was attended to march or April of 2012 but it's not like he got new knees.

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    Plushenko could win as long as Chan, Hanyu, Takahashi, Fernandez and Ten all have an "off" day on the ice.

  8. #323
    Custom Title LRK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Yes, based on his capability he likely would have if he didn't have that congenital hip disorder, so it's kinda sad/hypocritical to see Plushy ubers making snarky remarks about Yagudin not being the skater today that he was in 2002 (ironically, these same people are probably the quickest to attribute Plushenko's disastrous 2013 Euros SP to injury).
    Well, Yagudin IS still with us - he has thankfully not yet shuffled off this mortal coil; and injury or no, he IS still skating - so there is no reason why he should not have continued to improve artistically. No need to talk about the man as if he were dead, is there?

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Yes, based on his capability he likely would have if he didn't have that congenital hip disorder, so it's kinda sad/hypocritical to see Plushy ubers making snarky remarks about Yagudin not being the skater today that he was in 2002 (ironically, these same people are probably the quickest to attribute Plushenko's disastrous 2013 Euros SP to injury).
    Even Plushenko cannot skate as he was in 2002, with 3 years difference, why anybody should assume that Yagudin can have the form of 2002? Plushenko fans did not say that Yagudin could not skate as 2002 today (or I missed something?), and it was Yagudin fans kept going on and on about his hip problem preventing him from competing.

    Yes we attributes to Plushenko's EC2013 SP to his injury, otherwise, with you called excellent jumping technique, why on earth Plushenko would make 2 mistakes on triple jumps??? And with the disc replacement operation after EURO2013, and with doctor saying that his disc in question is basically erased, I think this assumption is pretty valid.

    But of course, for you maybe Plushenko is an ultimate robot that even with serious injury, he should skate cleanly like nothing is wrong with his body.

  10. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    He wasn't injured at Japan Open and had a disastrous freeskate. Saying he was with injury is certainly legitimate but he was landing his 3Z-3T and 3A in practice, and quite smoothly, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NwwYUcARBc I don't question his injury, but he could have still skated well. If Plushenko was bombing practices and not attempting or cleanly executing his 3Z-3T or 3A, then I could understand his injury as a greater contribution to his poor performance.
    Plushenko's JO performance was not really disastrous, Patrick Chan's is. But I agree that his JO performance is not very good since: 1. he put 6 jumps in the first half; 2. he fell on 2A at the end (clearly he was exhausted). And I do not recall any Plushenko fans attribute to that performance to injury.

    As for EC2013, Plushenko was not perfect in his morning practice, he barely landed his quad and some of the jumps are not very good quality.

    Anyways, my point was that Plushenko's fans are all over Yagudin no longer being a competitive skater, in spite of career-ending injury, but then defend Plushenko doing poorly as due to injury (even when practice video shows that he was still easily landing the jumps he attempted in his SP that he failed to execute).

    I think his Euros SP was a disaster, in part due to injury, but also due to his jumping not being as reliable as it has been in the past.
    As I mentioned in my previous post, it was Yagudin's fans bring up the issues about if he continued competing, how great he would be and would dominate the field, blablabla. And I do not recall any Plushenko fans attribute Yagudin's poor performance to not doing what he was doing. And it was you who clearly refuse to link Plushenko's Euro's disaster SP to his injury and continue attributing that performance to "his jumping not being as reliable as it has been in the past".

    I hope that every time Plushenko makes a major mistake people (i.e. his fans) don't immediately rush to defend him as "Oh, he's injured. Oh, he's coming back from injury.", etc. It doesn't matter if you're injured since what you do on the ice matters (and skaters perform with injuries all the time)... it might be a reason, but it shouldn't be an excuse. Nobody defended (nor should defend) Stojko's 1998 silver and not gold medal as him being injured and suggesting if he weren't injured he would have beaten Kulik. Ice is slippery too... so people make mistakes, even somebody who's been as consistent in the past as Plushenko. My personal view is that his body isn't what it used to be so even with good technique, he's unable to get the spring and cleanliness on his jumps that he once had (for example, his 3A in his Euros SP had a lean, not unlike his 2010 Olympic LP, but back then he had more capability to save the jump). But on the other hand, he could have just had an off day. It happens.
    You are so pathetic, we just say because he is injured, so he skated poorly. That is the REASON, OK? Even if in your eyes, it could just be a tiny tiny reason to his disastrous performance. What is wrong with that? Although he was injured back in 2002, we did not attribute his silver to his injury, right? We also never defend his EURO silver 2004.

    OK, so you suggest that he uses injury to hide his poor performance in Zagreb, isn't it. You are no better than that commentator. GOSH

    And yes, the ice is slippery, especially for certain Canadian skater

  11. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    No, he wasn't injured. He was in perfect shape, but he did that the big mistake, and as he said, his team also made some mistakes.
    Are you quite sure? I seem to remember something about a groin injury? And that also did it that he was not able to participate at Worlds after the Olympics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Are you quite sure? I seem to remember something about a groin injury? And that also did it that he was not able to participate at Worlds after the Olympics.
    He had injury back then. I remembered in his GPF2001?2 (the one he lost to Yagudin), Dick Button in his comments said he had problem with ankle. And he was terrible after the Olympics (feverish and lost 5 kg or sth. like that). I think it was due to the fact that he was still growing while the training load was very high so the body could not handle well. Maybe that is why he did not attend WORLD 2002. And in some people's eyes apparently he was not "brave" enough to attend the WORLDS after the Olympics.

    Just for the record, that is not to say that Plushenko's lost in SLC is due to his injury. And I know that great Yagudin had hip problem when he competed in SLC.

  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Anyways, my point was that Plushenko's fans are all over Yagudin no longer being a competitive skater, in spite of career-ending injury, but then defend Plushenko doing poorly as due to injury (even when practice video shows that he was still easily landing the jumps he attempted in his SP that he failed to execute).
    Everybody knows Yagudin had serious injuries that affected his competitive career, but he also said the retirement wasn't a catastrophe or something because he was a very accomplished skater by 2002, when he decided to stop competing. You think sky will fall down if Plushenko is not able to compete next year? He'll retire and move on.
    How could Yagudin be a competitive skater in 2013, he's 33 years old, nobody blames him for not competing anymore. I just blame people who talk about him as if he were dead (Yagudin was, Yagudin did etc) and those who probably didn't watch FS anymore after his retirement, because they don't know Plushenko had a long and successful career post 2002. If Chan retires next year and Hanyu stays because he's younger and he wants to achieve more, whom should we blame? Santa Claus?

  14. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlaurend View Post
    Plushenko could win as long as Chan, Hanyu, Takahashi, Fernandez and Ten all have an "off" day on the ice.
    I think it is more likely for all five to have an off day than any ONE to be clean through two programs. This is probably true for Plushenko at this point as well. What is exciting is that if any one of these men rises to the occasion and skates clean he will win. If not, Chan will win.

  15. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    I never was able to see Yagudin as an artistic skater (far from it!), but he was fortunate to have the benefit of good Tarasova/Morozov choreography. I always thought in those days that if Plushenko had had a choreography like the ones Yagudin skated to, he would not have been beaten by Yagudin.
    I know its hypothetical but your comment is also ... IMO if Plushenko had Yagudin's choreo he would not have been able to do it as well as Yags did it.....

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