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Thread: Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

  1. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    If 2012 Japan Open wasn't a serious competition, then why would he attempt 2 quads and 2 triple axels, and do all of his combos and whatnot? Clearly he was taking it seriously, even if he didn't execute it well.
    Because he wanted to test/challenge himself?

  2. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    That was in response to Plushenko "never being off the podium since 2001".
    The info is correct. Plu wasn't off the podium and he was winning either gold or silver since 2000-2001 season. JO is not the official ISU event. The result doesn't count. Now you know. Learn and live.
    I didn't say that competition was my reasoning for him not being a podium favourite.
    You did:
    You forgot the Japan Open, which was recent, where he finished 4th behind Jeff Buttle.
    So, when it's about Plu or anyone else, then JO counts and should be "not forgotten". But when it comes to Chan, where he finished the last one with 4 falls, then JO suddenly becomes "not reasoning". Classic lies and double standards from a Chan uber.
    If 2012 Japan Open wasn't a serious competition, then why would he attempt 2 quads and 2 triple axels, and do all of his combos and whatnot? Clearly he was taking it seriously, even if he didn't execute it well.
    So did Chan. Once again someone got lost in his own trolling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    The info is correct. Plu wasn't off the podium and he was winning either gold or silver since 2000-2001 season. JO is not the official ISU event. The result doesn't count. Now you know. Learn and live.
    I just realized that... Surprising

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    My reasoning is that there are currently too many guys to challenge him for the podium, and with his injury, it's unlikely that he will be able to have a program with two quads... heck, it's a miracle if he even competes.
    If he can't do quads he isn't going to skate in Sochi. My belief that he can't finish off the podium assumes that he is healthy; if he isn't healthy he won't compete. There are many challengers but they cannot skate well when it counts; Chan has won his world titles with shaky performances yet his competitors were as shaky if not more. Yuzuru, Dai, and Javier aren't going to beat Plushenko in Russia unless they outjump him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    Because he wanted to test/challenge himself?
    Of course, that was his first competiton since Euros 2012. He wanted to test his program, and he wanted to try two quads at first time since 2003, because they knew that Plushy will have to do on Euros against Javier, and Brian..

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    Quote Originally Posted by venlac View Post
    I just realized that... Surprising
    What is surprising? Didn't you know it? 36 gold and 5 silver medals. Check it his wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeni_Plushenko

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post


    If 2012 Japan Open wasn't a serious competition, then why would he attempt 2 quads and 2 triple axels, and do all of his combos and whatnot? Clearly he was taking it seriously, even if he didn't execute it well.
    On galas Plushy used to do at least 1 3A, but if he has a good day, or not played soccer( adores it) too much , he can make it three.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    If he can't do quads he isn't going to skate in Sochi. My belief that he can't finish off the podium assumes that he is healthy; if he isn't healthy he won't compete. There are many challengers but they cannot skate well when it counts; Chan has won his world titles with shaky performances yet his competitors were as shaky if not more. Yuzuru, Dai, and Javier aren't going to beat Plushenko in Russia unless they outjump him.
    Okay, but people are assuming that if he's healthy he'll perform cleanly, which are two different things (and you can't help but acknowledge his declined jumping ability). His performance at Russian Nationals, for example, would likely not be enough to defeat any of the top guys being on their game (especially when he had no level 4's). Certainly wouldn't have hit the top 2 (maybe even the podium) at Euros, even with a clean freeskate.

    Medaling in Sochi is a possibility for him, but he will require the top guys to falter. If Chan/Takahashi/Fernandez/Hanyu/Ten/Hanyu go clean, they will all beat him. Plus it would also require a clean performance from him, and as much as one hopes he skates well, I would wager good money that Plushenko will not have a clean program with 2 quads in Sochi... this isn't 2010 anymore and his body isn't the same. But I'd also wager that many of the top guys will have errors too (not as much as Worlds 2013), so he does have an outside shot at the podium, but doesn't really control his own destiny as compared to 2010/2006.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    Because he wanted to test/challenge himself?
    So he wanted to test and challenge himself with 2 quads and 2 triple axels planned, and faltered on them (and other elements, like a 3S and a 2A) but that's negligible since the Japan Open isn't a serious competition, and Plushenko had no intention of putting out a clean skate and didn't care about winning or anything... Right.

    I acknowledge that the Japan Open counts for Chan as a competition (where he performed terribly), but Plushenko's ubers are so quick to say "It's not a serious competition and is a bad example of how his skating is"... had he landed both quads and everything else you can bet these same people would all of a sudden deem it as a great example to use.

    Japan Open isn't serious.... Euros he was injured (even when his 3A and 3Z+3T were fine in practice)... I wonder what the story will be should he have another bad performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Japan Open isn't serious.... Euros he was injured (even when his 3A and 3Z+3T were fine in practice)... I wonder what the story will be should he have another bad performance.

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    Isolated from all other things the 3A and 3lz 3t for plushenko were fine in practice but what about warm up? Even if it was warm up they were isolated elements. I have no idea if they were even rotated. But if the issue is that he can't do the jumps because of his declining jumping ability or is it the issue that he could do them all together because of the injury to the back which was operated on and a disc replaced. From Russian nationals to Euros short program he was not tested in competition. 3A in practice or warmup was good so he had the jump! But then in short program he fell on the 3A after failing the lutz combo. So either he has the jumps or he doesn't have the jumps. He does and he doesn't!! So why didn't he have the 3A or combo in the SP was it the injury acting up. Not from the warmup but from the practice. Are practice and warm up being used interchangeably? So what is the deal?!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    So he wanted to test and challenge himself with 2 quads and 2 triple axels planned, and faltered on them (and other elements, like a 3S and a 2A) but that's negligible since the Japan Open isn't a serious competition, and Plushenko had no intention of putting out a clean skate and didn't care about winning or anything... Right.

    I acknowledge that the Japan Open counts for Chan as a competition (where he performed terribly), but Plushenko's ubers are so quick to say "It's not a serious competition and is a bad example of how his skating is"... had he landed both quads and everything else you can bet these same people would all of a sudden deem it as a great example to use.

    Japan Open isn't serious.... Euros he was injured (even when his 3A and 3Z+3T were fine in practice)... I wonder what the story will be should he have another bad performance.
    Good grief, CGS - so much venting for one sentence suggesting, you know, a possibility? He also went for a quad salchow in the Russian test skate - are you now suggesting that it was because he regards that as a "competition" as well?

    As for his jumping abilities pre and post surgery, I doubt there is going to be much correlation, and therefore, personally, I do not much engage in such discussions. But I dare say you hadn't noticed?

    We have no idea if he will be able to jump at all at this point. But it does feel to me as if you regard a disc that deteriorated so badly that it had to be replaced with an artificial one - scarcely a minor procedure, nor one, I would venture, undertaken lightly - as merely an excuse for "Plushy ubers" to blame his perfomances on. If this is truly the case, then your and my understanding of reality are so disparate, that further discussion is utterly pointless.

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    At EURO2013 a sharp pain appeared quite suddenly when Plushenko was doing the Luz, and he said in his interview he almost could not feel his leg. That is the back injury bothering, not the declining jumping ability. If he is healthy, he could perform multiple quads in practice. Yana said in Summer in one of the practice session, he performed over 40 perfect quads. So his "declining" jumping ability is purely due to his injury.

    I do not understand CSG (or I understand what he is trying to do too well). Here people asking a question: Can Plushenko win? And we all get it from CSG that he could not, but if other top skaters all fell apart, and Plushenko goes clean, he could medal, not gold. It is OK, it is CSG his own opinion. But why continuing "correcting" other people's opinion by trashing Plushenko's skating ability, reducing him to an average skater (probably even worse than average if not for his consistency). Now he claims that Plushenko probably wouldn't go clean even if he is healthy. That is just so nice of him, reducing a great skater to nothing. And even when the topic went peacefully to discuss about other things, he would drag all people's attention back on how average Plushenko is that the only chance he has on podium is all other skaters bombed.

  14. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post

    Japan Open isn't serious.... Euros he was injured (even when his 3A and 3Z+3T were fine in practice)... I wonder what the story will be should he have another bad performance.
    Just one question, please. Are you saying his injury at Euros this January was a "story"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Japan Open isn't serious.... Euros he was injured (even when his 3A and 3Z+3T were fine in practice)... I wonder what the story will be should he have another bad performance.
    The results of JO weigh far less than ISU sanctioned competition. I think nobody will disagree. Plushenko was serious for this particular competition to test whether he could perform 2 quads in the competition after so many years. Apparently he still needs to do something about it since he was a bit exhausted in the end. The "story" of not serious competition is fan's opinion, Plushenko himself never said JO is not a serious competition, unlike certain Canadian skater complaining a ISU sanctioned event as stupid.

    As for whether injury is a cooked "story" to cover up bad performance at Zagreb, what can I say, hahahaha

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