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Thread: Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    At EURO2013 a sharp pain appeared quite suddenly when Plushenko was doing the Luz, and he said in his interview he almost could not feel his leg. That is the back injury bothering, not the declining jumping ability. If he is healthy, he could perform multiple quads in practice. Yana said in Summer in one of the practice session, he performed over 40 perfect quads. So his "declining" jumping ability is purely due to his injury.

    I do not understand CSG (or I understand what he is trying to do too well). Here people asking a question: Can Plushenko win? And we all get it from CSG that he could not, but if other top skaters all fell apart, and Plushenko goes clean, he could medal, not gold. It is OK, it is CSG his own opinion. But why continuing "correcting" other people's opinion by trashing Plushenko's skating ability, reducing him to an average skater (probably even worse than average if not for his consistency). Now he claims that Plushenko probably wouldn't go clean even if he is healthy. That is just so nice of him, reducing a great skater to nothing. And even when the topic went peacefully to discuss about other things, he would drag all people's attention back on how average Plushenko is that the only chance he has on podium is all other skaters bombed.
    This makes sense! Of course it would explain why something could be done at one point and not another! Like a lutz toe combo in a practice but not in competition. Or in warmup but not in competition. He gets a sharp pain while doing lutz still lands it but the pain shock causes him to lose the landing of the 3A!

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    If Chan/Takahashi/Fernandez/Hanyu/Ten/Hanyu go clean, they will all beat him.
    6th if everyone's clean? No way. In Russia? With him being the most recognizable home country athlete at the Games?

  3. #423
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    ^ I guess if he finishes behind Chan, Takahashi, Fernandez, Hanyu, Ten, and Hanyu, that will be seventh place. And don't forget Max Aaron and Hanyu.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    If Chan/Takahashi/Fernandez/Hanyu/Ten/Hanyu go clean, they will all beat him.
    What makes you and Chan ubers' venting look miserble is that no one can say: "If Plu/Dai/Javi/Ten/Yuzu go clean, they will ALL beat Chan." Because everybody knows that Chan is the most corrupted skater in fs history and no matter how many times his butt zambonis the ice, he still wins over better skaters guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    I wonder what the story will be should he have another bad performance.
    So do I wonder what your story of another Chan's bad performance is and why he keeps winning with them. You still haven't shared.

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    I do not understand CSG (or I understand what he is trying to do too well). Here people asking a question: Can Plushenko win? And we all get it from CSG that he could not, but if other top skaters all fell apart, and Plushenko goes clean, he could medal, not gold. It is OK, it is CSG his own opinion. But why continuing "correcting" other people's opinion by trashing Plushenko's skating ability, reducing him to an average skater (probably even worse than average if not for his consistency). Now he claims that Plushenko probably wouldn't go clean even if he is healthy. That is just so nice of him, reducing a great skater to nothing. And even when the topic went peacefully to discuss about other things, he would drag all people's attention back on how average Plushenko is that the only chance he has on podium is all other skaters bombed.
    Skate Canada payroll. No way someone woud invest so much of his free time into embarrssiing himself free of charge. PR machine for Sochi started working. Time's up. They at least should have employed someone more life-enchanting and entertaining.

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    You are talking about someone who has won a gold or silver medal in every competition he finished since the 2000-01 season.
    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    The info is correct. Plu wasn't off the podium and he was winning either gold or silver since 2000-2001 season.
    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    What is surprising? Didn't you know it? 36 gold and 5 silver medals.
    Just 'wow'! though his skating style may not be my cup of tea, to Evgeni.


    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Either way even if the back IS good there is still the knees! So 2012 surgery with knees I think and 2013 surgery on back I mean best wishes to him!!! This is like crazy!! I'm totally interested in this as not only the story of plushenko but medical science. He could be in the new England journal of medicine!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    it's not just a story of Plushenko but a story of medicine.
    ...
    I hope that both Plushenko and medical science are at their best for next season.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    6th if everyone's clean? No way. In Russia? With him being the most recognizable home country athlete at the Games?
    If Plushenko is healthy enough, and is clean in Sochi, is he really worse than all these skaters when they are clean? I do not think so. Now CSG is just over the top to throw all the names down to make people think Plushenko is an average skater. The trick he used is to use other skaters best to compare with Plushenko's worst.

    I agree that if Plushenko cannot skated his best, he is at risk beaten by couple of skaters, and because of his health, it could happen. If this is the argument, it could be valid. But no way to assume a healthy Plushenko is worse than all these skaters. It is not the reputation card, although Plushenko (if he attends) will get some host favor, his ability of skating (if he can restore it) is the key to fight for podium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    If Plushenko is healthy enough, and is clean in Sochi, is he really worse than all these skaters when they are clean?
    A clean Chan or Fernandez would beat him, Takahashi and Hanyu, well..it depends on the PCS they receive and Ten definitely NO.

  8. #428
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    All of the men I mentioned have personal bests higher than Plushenko, and have the potential to score higher than him due to higher technical content, better PCS, or both. If Plushenko skates a clean SP with quad and LP with two quads he could beat a clean Ten (unless Ten does the same content... Note Ten's score at worlds with a 3F-3T turned into 2F-2T and 1 quad). The PCS of a clean Daisuke would keep him ahead of Plushenko, even with just one LP quad. Chan with two clean quads and clean skates would likely win. Fernandez's three quads and sequence in his LP give him a technical advantage over Plushenko (his euros LP with a 2F still scored 15 pts above Plushenko's personal best LP). Hanyu's jumps get higher GOE and his layout maximizes points, and he has the potential for a significant PCS boost going into next season, not to mention has scored 5 points better in his SP personal best wise.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    A clean Chan or Fernandez would beat him, Takahashi and Hanyu, well..it depends on the PCS they receive
    Hehe. Interesting to see how you put a clean Takahashi with "it depends on the PCS he receives." While Javi and Chan with "would beat him", even if it's clear as a day that a clean Dai's PCS must be ways higher than a clean Chan's and especially a clean Javi's. Yet with them you have no "it depends" in your argument, which is actually right. Because they are both aer either a Canadian or a coached/petted by a Canadian, so their PCS are granted with no "it depends".

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    All of the men I mentioned have personal bests higher than Plushenko, and have the potential to score higher than him due to higher technical content, better PCS, or both.
    Again someone got lost in his own trolling. Chan's personal best is two years old, the one that he got at Worlds-2011. Therefore there is no reason by your own logic to assume that he has the potential to score higher. He has been zamboni-ing ice with his butt all around, yet shamefully winning over better skated guys. You would be taken more seriously if you were not a Chan advocate. Seeing how a zamboni laywer trashing another skater who knows how to stand on his feet won't bring any reaction other than to laugh it off. Join your club!

  11. #431
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    With Takahashi, his PCS for a clean skate will (and should) be greater than a clean Plushenko... By about 3-4 points. If you add SP and LP that's about 6-8 points... So even if Plushenko does two quads and Takahashi does one, it still isn't enough to overcome the deficit based on Takahashi's PCS advantage. Another thing worth mentioning is the five guys all have personal bests in skates that haven't been totally clean in their personal best LPs where Plushenko was clean at Euros 2012, and yet they're still higher.

  12. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Again someone got lost in his own trolling. Chan's personal best is two years old, the one that he got at Worlds-2011. Therefore there is no reason by your own logic to assume that he has the potential to score higher. He has been zamboni-ing ice with his butt all around, yet shamefully winning over better skated guys. You would be taken more seriously if you were not a Chan advocate. Seeing how a zamboni laywer trashing another skater who knows how to stand on his feet won't bring any reaction other than to laugh it off. Join your club!
    He got a personal best in his SP - and the world record - at Worlds, and his 2012 Rostelcom FS had three jumps turned to doubles but still scored 176.91, which is higher than Plushenko's best free skate at Euros 2012. At the 2012 4CC his FS was two points shy of his personal best. He's been up and down with his free skate but his SP has been generally reliable and even with a major error he can still pull 90 points whereas Plushenko needs to go clean and with a quad to get 90+ because his programs, levels, GOE, and overall skating are that much better. Same with his FS... Chan scored about 170 at Worlds and the GPF with flawed skates (not condoning it, just pointing out scores) and Plushenko has only once scored above 170 and with a clean skate.

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    With Takahashi, his PCS for a clean skate will (and should) be greater than a clean Plushenko... By about 3-4 points. If you add SP and LP that's about 6-8 points... So even if Plushenko does two quads and Takahashi does one, it still isn't enough to overcome the deficit based on Takahashi's PCS advantage. Another thing worth mentioning is the five guys all have personal bests in skates that haven't been totally clean in their personal best LPs where Plushenko was clean at Euros 2012, and yet they're still higher.
    This claim which clean Takahashi would receive PCS 6-8 point more than clean Plushenko, would also mean that
    clean pchan would receive PCS 10 point more than clean plu.
    Do you really think so?

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    He got a personal best in his SP - and the world record - at Worlds, and his 2012 Rostelcom FS had three jumps turned to doubles but still scored 176.91, which is higher than Plushenko's best free skate at Euros 2012. At the 2012 4CC his FS was two points shy of his personal best. He's been up and down with his free skate but his SP has been generally reliable and even with a major error he can still pull 90 points whereas Plushenko needs to go clean and with a quad to get 90+ because his programs, levels, GOE, and overall skating are that much better. Same with his FS... Chan scored about 170 at Worlds and the GPF with flawed skates (not condoning it, just pointing out scores) and Plushenko has only once scored above 170 and with a clean skate.
    Comparing scores between competitions has no validity whatsoever. Before the 2010 Olympics, if we had to guess Yuna's maximum LP score, we'd probably say ~135, because she had never scored over 134. Guess what? She exceeded that mark by FIFTEEN points. All these predictions where you think a skater might score 3 or 4 points higher based on previous results do not matter because when the judges are comparing everyone side-by-side is the only time one can say who is better.

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    No, a clean Takahashi scores greater PCS than a clean Chan. Their PCS scores are pretty comparable. But chan/Takahashi's PB scores for PCS over both SP and LP are comfortably higher than Plushenko's. And if Takahashi/Chan are clean in Sochi I'm certain their PCS will be at least 3-4 points higher than him (which is really amounts to about 0.6 and 0.3 higher across all the PCS categories in the SP and LP, respectively.

    And yes, these are predictions based on past results, dmd. By your same notion, it doesn't matter that Any of those guys had poor skates this season - and none of the skates are an indication of how well they will or won't do in Sochi. Which is true. There's no telling if Plushenko, Takahashi and Ten will land two LP quads, if Fernandez/Hanyu has two SP quads, or if Chan will add a third quad to his FS. And no telling if they will go clean or whatnot. Since the thread is about Evgeni winning and nobody can see into the future, then the only thing we can work off of are past results and supposedly legitimate news reports... Even then we won't know until skaters hit the ice.

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