Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title? | Page 32 | Golden Skate

Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

yaya124

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
This is a Russian post-Olympic article from 2010: http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/bladerunner/68632.html

I am posting the translation below (I hope it's okay). Quite a wordy article but I thought it was a fascinating read and I agree with many of the view points that the author held regarding the path that Plushenko has chosen as a performer. He's a charismatic athlete and performer, but he's not an artist IMO because his skating lacks vision and thoughtfulness. I also think it's a shame that a skater as naturally talented as Plushenko refused to utilize his own country's long and gloried history of dance and music. He could've been so much more of a skater with his raw talent had he been exposed to or gained a real appreciation or understanding of a wider range of music (real music).

If you search on internet, in Russian articles, you can find many articles bashing Plushenko (He is not loved universally in Russia even he earned many medals for the mother land). If it happens to be written by some people with a name, it surely will lead people think they have a point. And if people like you happen to hold similar thoughts, it certainly will become your weapon to prove your point.

I do not agree with this article although I am a bit regret that Plushenko does not develop seriously some nice show numbers after his retirement years (06-09), since I know he can perform a wide range of characters convincingly. But as for the music choice, I could not agree with this Igor guy. Plushenko performed on many great classic music, it is not alike that he choose only pop music. Let us see:

From 01 on:
SP: Bolero (classic) LP: once upon of time in America (modern)
SP: Michael Jackson Melody (modern) LP: Carmen (classic)
SP: Adagio (classic) LP: St. Petersburg 300 (Russian modern music)
SP: Tango and Flamingo (classic?) LP: Nijinsky (mixed classic)
SP: Moonlight Sonata (classic) LP: Godfather (modern)
SP: Tosca (classic) LP: Godfather (modern)
SP: Aranjuez (classic) LP: Tango Amore (modern)

Plushenko certainly has his own vision on his music numbers, and his style evolved from classic to modern though keeps the beauty of the classic style. In my opinion that is creativity and push himself forward to seek new places, instead of staying in the comfort zone. If all these years Plushenko keeps skating to Russian classics, I am sure when he lost the competition, these "expert" could certain find other reason to blame his lost.

It is OK for people to like only certain style and feel sad that a talented person would deviated from their (people like Author) loving style to another style which they totally dissed. Igor has his opinion, but I am sure if Plushenko skated a great Russian music and lost, he will find other thing to say.

This Igor is crying more to the trend of young people loving western pop music over Russian classic, it is like that in many country. It is the invasion from Hollywood movies, the spread of modern music over media. At least Plushenko stated to many classic music (often his two programs contains one classic, one modern music, of course his classic version is often re-arranged a bit), not like he uses only western music.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
This is a Russian post-Olympic article from 2010: http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/bladerunner/68632.html

I am re-posting the translation below (I hope it's okay). Quite a wordy article but I thought it was a fascinating read and I agree with many of the view points that the author held regarding the path that Plushenko has chosen as a performer. He's a charismatic athlete and performer, but he's not an artist IMO because his skating lacks vision and thoughtfulness. I also think it's a shame that a skater as naturally talented (at least with the upper body; I don't think he's as gifted with the blades but that's another discussion) as Plushenko refused to utilize his own country's long and gloried history of dance and music. He could've been so much more of a skater with his raw talent had he been exposed to or gained a real appreciation or understanding of a wider range of music (real music).

You know, this is a person, who has a blog and wrote a review. In Russia there are Yagudin, Lambiel, Johnny, etc. fans, of course. Probably he doesn't like Plushy's music choice.
And it also shows how subjective the figure skating. Everyone would like to see different things on the ice.
I'm wouldn't be a big fan of Plush, if he only had skated to classical music . He would always be a nice guy, like Lambiel. Who is always beautiful, but he is always the same, isn't exciting.
I ADORE the ballet! But look at the dancers, they can jump, they have real huge jumps!!!
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
If you search on internet, in Russian articles, you can find many articles bashing Plushenko (He is not loved universally in Russia even he earned many medals for the mother land). If it happens to be written by some people with a name, it surely will lead people think they have a point. And if people like you happen to hold similar thoughts, it certainly will become your weapon to prove your point.

I do not agree with this article although I am a bit regret that Plushenko does not develop seriously some nice show numbers after his retirement years (06-09), since I know he can perform a wide range of characters convincingly. But as for the music choice, I could not agree with this Igor guy. Plushenko performed on many great classic music, it is not alike that he choose only pop music. Let us see:

From 01 on:
SP: Bolero (classic) LP: once upon of time in America (modern)
SP: Michael Jackson Melody (modern) LP: Carmen (classic)
SP: Adagio (classic) LP: St. Petersburg 300 (Russian modern music)
SP: Tango and Flamingo (classic?) LP: Nijinsky (mixed classic)
SP: Moonlight Sonata (classic) LP: Godfather (modern)
SP: Tosca (classic) LP: Godfather (modern)
SP: Aranjuez (classic) LP: Tango Amore (modern)

Plushenko certainly has his own vision on his music numbers, and his style evolved from classic to modern though keeps the beauty of the classic style. In my opinion that is creativity and push himself forward to seek new places, instead of staying in the comfort zone. If all these years Plushenko keeps skating to Russian classics, I am sure when he lost the competition, these "expert" could certain find other reason to blame his lost.

It is OK for people to like only certain style and feel sad that a talented person would deviated from their (people like Author) loving style to another style which they totally dissed. Igor has his opinion, but I am sure if Plushenko skated a great Russian music and lost, he will find other thing to say.

This Igor is crying more to the trend of young people loving western pop music over Russian classic, it is like that in many country. It is the invasion from Hollywood movies, the spread of modern music over media. At least Plushenko stated to many classic music (often his two programs contains one classic, one modern music, of course his classic version is often re-arranged a bit), not like he uses only western music.

:thumbsup:
( Tango and Flamenco) ;)

And you don't mentioned the Gipsy dance( Dark eyes) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aQdGyJQ1cU , or his choice in last season.
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
This is a Russian post-Olympic article from 2010: http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/bladerunner/68632.html

I am re-posting the translation below (I hope it's okay). Quite a wordy article but I thought it was a fascinating read and I agree with many of the view points that the author held regarding the path that Plushenko has chosen as a performer. He's a charismatic athlete and performer, but he's not an artist IMO because his skating lacks vision and thoughtfulness. I also think it's a shame that a skater as naturally talented (at least with the upper body; I don't think he's as gifted with the blades but that's another discussion) as Plushenko refused to utilize his own country's long and gloried history of dance and music. He could've been so much more of a skater with his raw talent had he been exposed to or gained a real appreciation or understanding of a wider range of music (real music).

Maya Plisetskaya:

M.P.-He is our favourite. He is so good that it looks like nobody can beat him. I can't imagine who can be better. He is a master, a great master who does everything beautifully, brilliantly and artistically. Also, he always looks so confident that we, his fans, cannot be not confident. He skates like an artist who knows that he is the best. Other skaters think that they are good too, but they have doubts and get nervous. Plushenko on the contrary always knows that he is much better than others, and he convinces all of us in it. He not just "works" on ice, he dances on ice masterly, and that is a wonderful thing to see.

E.S.- What do you think about his appearance?

M.P.- I think his appearance is fine. He is tall, striking, with a handsome body and long arms. He is not some cute guy from the postcard, thanks god he is not!, but he has the perfect face for the stage. The ice is the stage too.

E.S.- Who does he remind you among ballet dancers?

M.P.- He looks like Godunov, the Russian ballet dancer. The same type- tall, handsome, self-confident, with long waving in the wind and pirouettes blond hair. In ballet he would be perfect at parts performed by Godunov. He has the temperament and virtuosity for that."
 

yaya124

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
:thumbsup:
( Tango and Flamenco) ;)

And you don't mentioned the Gipsy dance( Dark eyes) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aQdGyJQ1cU , or his choice in last season.

Gosh, again wrong spelling:d

I did not include Plushenko's programs from earlier years because Igor was talking mostly about his "later" programs. I did not mention his 2012 & 2013 programs also because this article was written after 2010 Olympics but before Plushenko skated to these new programs.

Just in case, let us recall his programs which I did not mention in my post:

95-96 season: SP: ? LP: Don Quixote (classic)
96-97 season: SP: Taratella (classic?) LP: William Tell Overture (classic)
97-98 season: SP: Paso doble (folk music?) LP: Jean Michel Jarre Medley (classic)
98-99 season: SP: Hava Nagila (Jewish folk music) LP: Jean Michel Jarre Medley (classic)
99-00 season: SP: The Sabre Dance (Russian folk music) LP: Dark Eyes (Russian folk music)

11-12 season: Storm (classic) Tango de Roxanne (modern music)
12-13 season: Storm (classic) Best of Saint-Saens (classic)

;)
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Igor Poroshin:

"When instead of the Marinski theater and “Firebird”, I discovered Korneliuk’s “Banditski Petersburg”, it was like a tragedy for me. I still do not think my feelings were lying to me or exaggerating. I still am upset when I reminisce about it. In the case of any other skater, I would not have such feelings. I do not know with what to compare this failure to understand. You can only imaging the fantasy of Maya Plisetskaya on the stage dancing in Avdish’s cabaret or as one of the dancers in Kirkorov’s ensemble. We are talking about cosmic misalliance, an extraordinary absurdity: a world-famous genius preaching the values of the pitiable, unwashed, mute, unbelievable provincial Russian pop culture."

This is Korneliuk music, what liked Plushy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHjjPZ8vbto with english subtitle, 10 years together show :love:

and his competitive program: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7WXLsJlAiw St. Peterburg 300 GPF 2003 ( I'm ashamed of myself, but I adore this program and music..) Six 6.0s presentation marks :agree:
 

bestskate8

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
We can't deny he will be 31 year old. I only hope he will able to compete and win on Rus Nat with the two good and strong programs. Honestly, I can't imagine how his body will be able to do it. What I know I will support him all the way, and i hope I will see him at Euros 2014. I haven't see him on competition live, only on show.



Kovtun is almost 18. (18.07.1995) Plushy was Junior WCH at 14, he was World bronz and silver medalist, European Champion, and two times European silver medalist when he was younger than Kovtun. He beat Urmanov at 15 y.o.

That is a sign of genius :)
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Dont be crazy! He did not stop after two seasons as a senior like Lipinski but went on and got better and better and better so he was a total prodigy turned ultra genius. You say kovtun is exhibiting talent at 17 that indicates he will be better than plushenko but plushenko was so much more successful in jumps and artistry than kovtun at 17 almost 18!! What indications has kovtun shown that he can be even 1% the skater plushenko is??!?
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Practice what you preach.
I am waiting for you to set an example.:popcorn:
Can you find a single word from my post that was remotely "insulting"?! No! The words were all coming from your own post. When your own words were used back on yourself, you felt insulting, you were insulting others in the first place. So simple!:rolleye:
I am sure your :rolleye: is quite sincere. You indeed don't get the difference between the reference to the official group, like "ISU" or "the Democrats" or "the Republicans", and the insult you address to the individual like a poster on the online forum. That is obvioulsy how you were brought up in your social circle. Therefore for the sake of charity let me give you some juridical advice pro bono. The two situations above are treated completely different by law. You can't insult the organization. You can damage its business reputation at best. The insult can be directed only to the individual. And when you do it offline, you can be seriously screwed by law. Keep it in mind next time when you open you mouth. But something tells me that you type is brave only online hiding behind the computer screen and you won't tell any single thing what you type offlline to anybody. :p
:thumbsup:to Plushenko for having the guts to do this program and not being afraid of the "gay" tag.
Probably because he is not gay. He loves the women and the women love him.
You two probably didn't plan it but in fact you hit something here. I noticed long time ago that the worst Plu haters in the Internet, and in RuNet, are gays. Is it when it all started, with the skirt on him that was seen inappropriate by some gays, as if he was laughing at something? Mishin was also accused of being homophobic when he insisted on top jumps and being more manly in skating in Men segment.
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
This is a Russian post-Olympic article from 2010: http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/bladerunner/68632.html

I am re-posting the translation below (I hope it's okay). Quite a wordy article but I thought it was a fascinating read and I agree with many of the view points that the author held regarding the path that Plushenko has chosen as a performer. He's a charismatic athlete and performer, but he's not an artist IMO because his skating lacks vision and thoughtfulness. I also think it's a shame that a skater as naturally talented (at least with the upper body; I don't think he's as gifted with the blades but that's another discussion) as Plushenko refused to utilize his own country's long and gloried history of dance and music. He could've been so much more of a skater with his raw talent had he been exposed to or gained a real appreciation or understanding of a wider range of music (real music).

I'm curious what was Poroshin saying when Yagudin was skating to Hollywood OSTs. :rolleye::popcorn:
Let's talk, can you assist, please? Thanks!;)
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
I noticed long time ago that the worst Plu haters in the Internet, and in RuNet, are gays. Is it when it all started, with the skirt on him that was seen inappropriate by some gays, as if he was laughing at something? Mishin was also accused of being homophobic when he insisted on top jumps and being more manly in skating in Men segment.

Gay and immigrants. ;) Plushy is not homophobic, he's Johnny's friend but he definitely is a patriot and that's why so many people who left Russia can't stand him.
 

whitebamboo

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 7, 2012
Igor Poroshin:

"When instead of the Marinski theater and “Firebird”, I discovered Korneliuk’s “Banditski Petersburg”, it was like a tragedy for me. I still do not think my feelings were lying to me or exaggerating. I still am upset when I reminisce about it. In the case of any other skater, I would not have such feelings. I do not know with what to compare this failure to understand. You can only imaging the fantasy of Maya Plisetskaya on the stage dancing in Avdish’s cabaret or as one of the dancers in Kirkorov’s ensemble. We are talking about cosmic misalliance, an extraordinary absurdity: a world-famous genius preaching the values of the pitiable, unwashed, mute, unbelievable provincial Russian pop culture."

This is Korneliuk music, what liked Plushy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHjjPZ8vbto with english subtitle, 10 years together show :love:

and his competitive program: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7WXLsJlAiw St. Peterburg 300 GPF 2003 ( I'm ashamed of myself, but I adore this program and music..) Six 6.0s presentation marks :agree:

Why ashamed? It's brilliant music.

The ballet of the National Opera of Ukraine was not too good to dance David Avdish's "Master and Margarita" on stage. The Mariinsky was not too good to work with Plushenko (nor too good to involve him in their April Fool's Day joke, for that matter). Maya Plisetskaya herself was not too good to call herself a "fan". So I don't get why Poroshin was fantasizing (so emotionally) about "Maya Plisetskaya on the stage dancing in Avdish’s cabaret".

In any case, as the thread appears to be on "art" now....In response to the kind of criticism embodied by Poroshin's long article, Plushy once replied quite simply that "an artist should not always be in the image of a prince". And Mishin once, when comparing his students, said that what was unique about Plushy in his mind was the "wide range of his creativity", even calling him "Shakespearean". Now one may say that Mishin is not objective, I suppose, nevertheless, to my eyes those few sentences (from both of them) already reveal a far greater and deeper understanding of what is "art" than all of Poroshin's multitude of words.

The definition of art may be all sorts of different things to different people, but to me, if there is one thing that art should not be, I would say that it should not be narrow. Of course people have different preferences, and it's perfectly fine to say that one doesn't like a particular style, or that one doesn't "get" it, but to say that someone isn't an artist just because he doesn't fit into a restricted definition of what "art" should consist of comes across to me as a bit sad. And that was the feeling I get when reading Poroshin's article, I have to say.

In any case, I don't quite understood Poroshin's point: after all that he goes on about "pop music", when you look at Plushenko's competitive programs, none of them really can be said to be with pop music, anyway.... The closest he came to "pop music" in competition were (rewritten) movie scores. In the end, it seems kind of strange to me for Poroshin to get so upset that Plushenko doesn't skate according to what he (Poroshin, that is) thinks should be skated. Maybe in a way, the article really ends up revealing more about himself than about Plushenko.
 

ciocio

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Igor Poroshin:

"When instead of the Marinski theater and “Firebird”, I discovered Korneliuk’s “Banditski Petersburg”, it was like a tragedy for me. I still do not think my feelings were lying to me or exaggerating. I still am upset when I reminisce about it. In the case of any other skater, I would not have such feelings. I do not know with what to compare this failure to understand. You can only imaging the fantasy of Maya Plisetskaya on the stage dancing in Avdish’s cabaret or as one of the dancers in Kirkorov’s ensemble. We are talking about cosmic misalliance, an extraordinary absurdity: a world-famous genius preaching the values of the pitiable, unwashed, mute, unbelievable provincial Russian pop culture."

This is Korneliuk music, what liked Plushy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHjjPZ8vbto with english subtitle, 10 years together show :love:

and his competitive program: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7WXLsJlAiw St. Peterburg 300 GPF 2003 ( I'm ashamed of myself, but I adore this program and music..) Six 6.0s presentation marks :agree:

I'm sorry for Proshin but I am not ashamed. St. Petersburg 300 is one of my favorite programs and Gorod kotorogo net one of my fav ex. The real tragedy are Poroshin rants, it's obvious he is a narrow-minded person. :disagree:
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
Gay and immigrants. ;) Plushy is not homophobic, he's Johnny's friend but he definitely is a patriot and that's why so many people who left Russia can't stand him.
Plushy signed a petition against an ultra-clerical man who used the anti-gay law in St. Petersburg.

You two probably didn't plan it but in fact you hit something here. I noticed long time ago that the worst Plu haters in the Internet, and in RuNet, are gays. Is it when it all started, with the skirt on him that was seen inappropriate by some gays, as if he was laughing at something? Mishin was also accused of being homophobic when he insisted on top jumps and being more manly in skating in Men segment.

I can't believe...The gays are too sensitive, because the Asissai program is funny, smart, cute, and absolute unusual, but nothing to do with homophobia. He acts two roles brilliantly...In this respect, Mrs Doubtfire is also homophobic. :biggrin:

Why ashamed? It's brilliant music.

The ballet of the National Opera of Ukraine was not too good to dance David Avdish's "Master and Margarita" on stage. The Mariinsky was not too good to work with Plushenko (nor too good to involve him in their April Fool's Day joke, for that matter). Maya Plisetskaya herself was not too good to call herself a "fan". So I don't get why Poroshin was fantasizing (so emotionally) about "Maya Plisetskaya on the stage dancing in Avdish’s cabaret".

In any case, as the thread appears to be on "art" now....In response to the kind of criticism embodied by Poroshin's long article, Plushy once replied quite simply that "an artist should not always be in the image of a prince". And Mishin once, when comparing his students, said that what was unique about Plushy in his mind was the "wide range of his creativity", even calling him "Shakespearean". Now one may say that Mishin is not objective, I suppose, nevertheless, to my eyes those few sentences (from both of them) already reveal a far greater and deeper understanding of what is "art" than all of Poroshin's multitude of words.

The definition of art may be all sorts of different things to different people, but to me, if there is one thing that art should not be, I would say that it should not be narrow. Of course people have different preferences, and it's perfectly fine to say that one doesn't like a particular style, or that one doesn't "get" it, but to say that someone isn't an artist just because he doesn't fit into a restricted definition of what "art" should consist of comes across to me as a bit sad. And that was the feeling I get when reading Poroshin's article, I have to say.

In any case, I don't quite understood Poroshin's point: after all that he goes on about "pop music", when you look at Plushenko's competitive programs, none of them really can be said to be with pop music, anyway.... The closest he came to "pop music" in competition were (rewritten) movie scores. In the end, it seems kind of strange to me for Poroshin to get so upset that Plushenko doesn't skate according to what he (Poroshin, that is) thinks should be skated. Maybe in a way, the article really ends up revealing more about himself than about Plushenko.

I enjoy your smart posts everytime and everywhere.. :):thumbsup:
 

plushyfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Country
Hungary
I'm sorry for Proshin but I am not ashamed. St. Petersburg 300 is one of my favorite programs and Gorod kotorogo net one of my fav ex. The real tragedy are Poroshin rants, it's obvious he is a narrow-minded person. :disagree:

Of course, I was joking. Good music and "Gorod kotorogo net- Town wich doesn't exist" Plushy's legendary ex program. And for me the St Petersburg 300 is one of my favorite men programs ever.

---------
Poroshin:
"commercial pop violinist, Hungarian Edvin Marton"

Yeah, he isn't a Menuhin or Pearlman but Edvin Marton is a good composer and Grammy Award Winner.
 
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