The assesment of the 2002 Olympic mens SP by a dubious troll is quite faulty. Abt was not at all clean. His triple axel was landed badly forward, and might have been considered a hand down by some judges. His triple lutz was badly cheated by atleast half a rotation. He was also slow throughout more than half the program as Scott Hamilton noted.
Chengiang Li did not do a quad combo, he did a solo quad, and a triple axel combination. I could see more case for him beating Plushenko than Abt, but his spins and other elements are too much of a weakness.
Plushenkos marks were given by the rules. 5.3 to 5.5 for elements. Well skating cleanly 5.7 to 5.9 would make sense and the required deduction was .4 so there you go. As for the presentation marks, obviously some judges felt it didnt disrupt the flow of the program so marked it just as was, while a few others did. A reasonable judgement either way as he got up quickly from the fall and continued.
As for Goebel his marks were more than fair in both programs. Long program his average mark was 5.8 (a couple 5.7s and a couple 5.9s, there were no 5.6s) even though he didnt have a single successful triple axel. He did not have 2 triple axels, he only had 1 and missed that one. The quality of his triples is quite poor compared to most of the top jumpers, so he was more than rewarded for his successful quads, and the 5.9s especialy were in fact not justified IMO. He received a 5.7 for presentation from almost every judges which was also quite wrong IMO. I might have had Honda over him for the bronze even without a successful quad as he did every triple perfectly, and as noted Goebel couldnt complete even 1 triple axel which is almost worse than not completing a quad, and the overall quality of his skating was in another planet from Goebel. I think Goebel in general was quite overmarked from 2001-2003 even with his quads, and lucky to attain the results he did. Most skating fans do not think he was robbed at any point in time, only a few biased and clueless homers (or in cases as we see here haters of another skater). Let me just add that 30 times (and that is probably an underestimate) more fans disagree with a huge number of Chans wins than argue Goebel deserving a higher placing at any event, including his wins at Worlds this year, so using what a few fans say as the crux of ones argument, particularly considering the source it is coming from, is comical at best.
[QUOTE=CanadianSkaterGuy;740942]What would you call this, then? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEbsdvX6lEo&t=1m21s
Oh, CSG! I watched your link, I wacthed Timothy again, and after this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhIiisXRBys "he is 1 billion extremely amazing n awsome!"
Do you really think that Tim was better?
I wrote that the ISU used the 2002 Olympics men's long program (among other events) to test CoP base values in the formative stages of the IJS.
Surely this is the most mild and innocuous post in the history of figure skating message boards. What was it about this post made you so angry?
Goebel FS: 3Z, 4S+3T, 3A+2T, 4T, 3A(so), 4S, 3F, 3L (8 jumping passes; 3 quads, 6 triples)
Plushenko FS: 4T+3T+3L(so), 4T, 3A-3F, 3A, 3Z, 2A, 2S (7 jumping passes; 2 quads, 6 triples)
Now take out the elements that overlap between them and you're left with:
Goebel FS: 4S, 4S, 2T
Plushenko FS: 4T, 2A, 2S
Essentially Goebel did a whole quad more. Factor in the fact that Goebel had transitions (spread eagle/hydroblading) into his jumps while Plushenko didn't have any, and the fact that Goebel executed 4S/3F/3L in the second half versus Plushenko's 3Z/2A/2S, and there's absolutely no way Plushenko should have been on par or outscored Goebel, technically. To me, this difference is greater than the better artistry/interpretation. I've always been a fan of rewarding skaters who execute higher difficulty (the highest difficulty in this case -- I mean we wouldn't see 3 quads in the FS for another decade!) to maintain the sport aspect of figure skating and I think on that day theatrics beat out technical.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEbsdvX6lEo&t=1m21s), but I also don't get which of Goebel's triples in that FS were of 'quite poor' quality, other than the second 3A (which was the only triple he would get a deduction on). Goebel landed his triples with good flow and fully rotated, and he had transitions going into his 3A+2T and his 3L and coming out of his 3Z. The only thing he lacks is the height that the other guys get.
Plushenko stepped out of his 3L, lipped his 3F, turned a 3S to a 2S, and had no transitions going into any of his jumps (especially his stalked 3As)... so I hope you're not referring to him as one of the top jumpers who had overall better quality of triples. The only one who I would argue had better jump quality overall was Yagudin. I'm not even a big fan of Goebel, but I think credit should be given where credit is due. A well-balanced jump layout with 3 quads, 2 axels with just a stepout on the 2nd axel, is definitely worthy of a 5.9; he should have had close to a string of them (and certainly no 5.6/5.7).