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Thread: Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

  1. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Practice what you preach.
    I am waiting for you to set an example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Can you find a single word from my post that was remotely "insulting"?! No! The words were all coming from your own post. When your own words were used back on yourself, you felt insulting, you were insulting others in the first place. So simple!
    I am sure your is quite sincere. You indeed don't get the difference between the reference to the official group, like "ISU" or "the Democrats" or "the Republicans", and the insult you address to the individual like a poster on the online forum. That is obvioulsy how you were brought up in your social circle. Therefore for the sake of charity let me give you some juridical advice pro bono. The two situations above are treated completely different by law. You can't insult the organization. You can damage its business reputation at best. The insult can be directed only to the individual. And when you do it offline, you can be seriously screwed by law. Keep it in mind next time when you open you mouth. But something tells me that you type is brave only online hiding behind the computer screen and you won't tell any single thing what you type offlline to anybody.
    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    to Plushenko for having the guts to do this program and not being afraid of the "gay" tag.
    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Probably because he is not gay. He loves the women and the women love him.
    You two probably didn't plan it but in fact you hit something here. I noticed long time ago that the worst Plu haters in the Internet, and in RuNet, are gays. Is it when it all started, with the skirt on him that was seen inappropriate by some gays, as if he was laughing at something? Mishin was also accused of being homophobic when he insisted on top jumps and being more manly in skating in Men segment.

  2. #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    This is a Russian post-Olympic article from 2010: http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/b...ner/68632.html
    I too have an article from the same portal sports.ru. And it's much fresher, much popular and much more appreciated by readers . Let me know if you want me to translate it.
    http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/f...fe/435993.html

  3. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    This is a Russian post-Olympic article from 2010: http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/b...ner/68632.html

    I am re-posting the translation below (I hope it's okay). Quite a wordy article but I thought it was a fascinating read and I agree with many of the view points that the author held regarding the path that Plushenko has chosen as a performer. He's a charismatic athlete and performer, but he's not an artist IMO because his skating lacks vision and thoughtfulness. I also think it's a shame that a skater as naturally talented (at least with the upper body; I don't think he's as gifted with the blades but that's another discussion) as Plushenko refused to utilize his own country's long and gloried history of dance and music. He could've been so much more of a skater with his raw talent had he been exposed to or gained a real appreciation or understanding of a wider range of music (real music).
    I'm curious what was Poroshin saying when Yagudin was skating to Hollywood OSTs.
    Let's talk, can you assist, please? Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I noticed long time ago that the worst Plu haters in the Internet, and in RuNet, are gays. Is it when it all started, with the skirt on him that was seen inappropriate by some gays, as if he was laughing at something? Mishin was also accused of being homophobic when he insisted on top jumps and being more manly in skating in Men segment.
    Gay and immigrants. Plushy is not homophobic, he's Johnny's friend but he definitely is a patriot and that's why so many people who left Russia can't stand him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Igor Poroshin:

    "When instead of the Marinski theater and “Firebird”, I discovered Korneliuk’s “Banditski Petersburg”, it was like a tragedy for me. I still do not think my feelings were lying to me or exaggerating. I still am upset when I reminisce about it. In the case of any other skater, I would not have such feelings. I do not know with what to compare this failure to understand. You can only imaging the fantasy of Maya Plisetskaya on the stage dancing in Avdish’s cabaret or as one of the dancers in Kirkorov’s ensemble. We are talking about cosmic misalliance, an extraordinary absurdity: a world-famous genius preaching the values of the pitiable, unwashed, mute, unbelievable provincial Russian pop culture."

    This is Korneliuk music, what liked Plushy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHjjPZ8vbto with english subtitle, 10 years together show

    and his competitive program: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7WXLsJlAiw St. Peterburg 300 GPF 2003 ( I'm ashamed of myself, but I adore this program and music..) Six 6.0s presentation marks
    Why ashamed? It's brilliant music.

    The ballet of the National Opera of Ukraine was not too good to dance David Avdish's "Master and Margarita" on stage. The Mariinsky was not too good to work with Plushenko (nor too good to involve him in their April Fool's Day joke, for that matter). Maya Plisetskaya herself was not too good to call herself a "fan". So I don't get why Poroshin was fantasizing (so emotionally) about "Maya Plisetskaya on the stage dancing in Avdish’s cabaret".

    In any case, as the thread appears to be on "art" now....In response to the kind of criticism embodied by Poroshin's long article, Plushy once replied quite simply that "an artist should not always be in the image of a prince". And Mishin once, when comparing his students, said that what was unique about Plushy in his mind was the "wide range of his creativity", even calling him "Shakespearean". Now one may say that Mishin is not objective, I suppose, nevertheless, to my eyes those few sentences (from both of them) already reveal a far greater and deeper understanding of what is "art" than all of Poroshin's multitude of words.

    The definition of art may be all sorts of different things to different people, but to me, if there is one thing that art should not be, I would say that it should not be narrow. Of course people have different preferences, and it's perfectly fine to say that one doesn't like a particular style, or that one doesn't "get" it, but to say that someone isn't an artist just because he doesn't fit into a restricted definition of what "art" should consist of comes across to me as a bit sad. And that was the feeling I get when reading Poroshin's article, I have to say.

    In any case, I don't quite understood Poroshin's point: after all that he goes on about "pop music", when you look at Plushenko's competitive programs, none of them really can be said to be with pop music, anyway.... The closest he came to "pop music" in competition were (rewritten) movie scores. In the end, it seems kind of strange to me for Poroshin to get so upset that Plushenko doesn't skate according to what he (Poroshin, that is) thinks should be skated. Maybe in a way, the article really ends up revealing more about himself than about Plushenko.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Igor Poroshin:

    "When instead of the Marinski theater and “Firebird”, I discovered Korneliuk’s “Banditski Petersburg”, it was like a tragedy for me. I still do not think my feelings were lying to me or exaggerating. I still am upset when I reminisce about it. In the case of any other skater, I would not have such feelings. I do not know with what to compare this failure to understand. You can only imaging the fantasy of Maya Plisetskaya on the stage dancing in Avdish’s cabaret or as one of the dancers in Kirkorov’s ensemble. We are talking about cosmic misalliance, an extraordinary absurdity: a world-famous genius preaching the values of the pitiable, unwashed, mute, unbelievable provincial Russian pop culture."

    This is Korneliuk music, what liked Plushy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHjjPZ8vbto with english subtitle, 10 years together show

    and his competitive program: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7WXLsJlAiw St. Peterburg 300 GPF 2003 ( I'm ashamed of myself, but I adore this program and music..) Six 6.0s presentation marks
    I'm sorry for Proshin but I am not ashamed. St. Petersburg 300 is one of my favorite programs and Gorod kotorogo net one of my fav ex. The real tragedy are Poroshin rants, it's obvious he is a narrow-minded person.

  7. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    Gay and immigrants. Plushy is not homophobic, he's Johnny's friend but he definitely is a patriot and that's why so many people who left Russia can't stand him.
    Plushy signed a petition against an ultra-clerical man who used the anti-gay law in St. Petersburg.

    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post

    You two probably didn't plan it but in fact you hit something here. I noticed long time ago that the worst Plu haters in the Internet, and in RuNet, are gays. Is it when it all started, with the skirt on him that was seen inappropriate by some gays, as if he was laughing at something? Mishin was also accused of being homophobic when he insisted on top jumps and being more manly in skating in Men segment.
    I can't believe...The gays are too sensitive, because the Asissai program is funny, smart, cute, and absolute unusual, but nothing to do with homophobia. He acts two roles brilliantly...In this respect, Mrs Doubtfire is also homophobic.

    Quote Originally Posted by whitebamboo View Post
    Why ashamed? It's brilliant music.

    The ballet of the National Opera of Ukraine was not too good to dance David Avdish's "Master and Margarita" on stage. The Mariinsky was not too good to work with Plushenko (nor too good to involve him in their April Fool's Day joke, for that matter). Maya Plisetskaya herself was not too good to call herself a "fan". So I don't get why Poroshin was fantasizing (so emotionally) about "Maya Plisetskaya on the stage dancing in Avdish’s cabaret".

    In any case, as the thread appears to be on "art" now....In response to the kind of criticism embodied by Poroshin's long article, Plushy once replied quite simply that "an artist should not always be in the image of a prince". And Mishin once, when comparing his students, said that what was unique about Plushy in his mind was the "wide range of his creativity", even calling him "Shakespearean". Now one may say that Mishin is not objective, I suppose, nevertheless, to my eyes those few sentences (from both of them) already reveal a far greater and deeper understanding of what is "art" than all of Poroshin's multitude of words.

    The definition of art may be all sorts of different things to different people, but to me, if there is one thing that art should not be, I would say that it should not be narrow. Of course people have different preferences, and it's perfectly fine to say that one doesn't like a particular style, or that one doesn't "get" it, but to say that someone isn't an artist just because he doesn't fit into a restricted definition of what "art" should consist of comes across to me as a bit sad. And that was the feeling I get when reading Poroshin's article, I have to say.

    In any case, I don't quite understood Poroshin's point: after all that he goes on about "pop music", when you look at Plushenko's competitive programs, none of them really can be said to be with pop music, anyway.... The closest he came to "pop music" in competition were (rewritten) movie scores. In the end, it seems kind of strange to me for Poroshin to get so upset that Plushenko doesn't skate according to what he (Poroshin, that is) thinks should be skated. Maybe in a way, the article really ends up revealing more about himself than about Plushenko.
    I enjoy your smart posts everytime and everywhere..

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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    I'm sorry for Proshin but I am not ashamed. St. Petersburg 300 is one of my favorite programs and Gorod kotorogo net one of my fav ex. The real tragedy are Poroshin rants, it's obvious he is a narrow-minded person.
    Of course, I was joking. Good music and "Gorod kotorogo net- Town wich doesn't exist" Plushy's legendary ex program. And for me the St Petersburg 300 is one of my favorite men programs ever.

    ---------
    Poroshin:
    "commercial pop violinist, Hungarian Edvin Marton"

    Yeah, he isn't a Menuhin or Pearlman but Edvin Marton is a good composer and Grammy Award Winner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan
    Mrs Doubtfire
    Here is Dan Hollander's interpretation.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKBFcC3tK2U#t=1m10s

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Here is Dan Hollander's interpretation.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKBFcC3tK2U#t=1m10s
    I have never seen this video!!! Thank you !!!!! So funny!

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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Of course, I was joking. Good music and "Gorod kotorogo net- Town wich doesn't exist" Plushy's legendary ex program. And for me the St Petersburg 300 is one of my favorite men programs ever.

    ---------
    Poroshin:
    "commercial pop violinist, Hungarian Edvin Marton"

    Yeah, he isn't a Menuhin or Pearlman but Edvin Marton is a good composer and Grammy Award Winner.
    Ok, what about his wife, mother, dad, sister, sons, ex-wife, Baturin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I am sure your is quite sincere. You indeed don't get the difference between the reference to the official group, like "ISU" or "the Democrats" or "the Republicans", and the insult you address to the individual like a poster on the online forum. That is obvioulsy how you were brought up in your social circle. Therefore for the sake of charity let me give you some juridical advice pro bono. The two situations above are treated completely different by law. You can't insult the organization. You can damage its business reputation at best. The insult can be directed only to the individual. And when you do it offline, you can be seriously screwed by law. Keep it in mind next time when you open you mouth. But something tells me that you type is brave only online hiding behind the computer screen and you won't tell any single thing what you type offlline to anybody.
    Finding excuses for trolling. Well, I only argue with reasonable people or someone with a point. So I'll leave you continue your trolling on this line. Bye!

  13. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Well, I only argue with reasonable people or someone with a point.
    That's why you argue with me more than with anyone else on this board.

    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    I'm curious what was Poroshin saying when Yagudin was skating to Hollywood OSTs.
    Let's talk, can you assist, please? Thanks!
    Zero. He never wrote anything to my knowledge about this topic. Why should he bother if no one is interested. Even when he wrote about Yag in SLC, he still was writing about Plu.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    So Tara Lipinski is a genius, then?
    Did she compete till 31? or planing to compete in Sochi?

    Quote Originally Posted by whitebamboo View Post
    Why ashamed? It's brilliant music.

    The ballet of the National Opera of Ukraine was not too good to dance David Avdish's "Master and Margarita" on stage. The Mariinsky was not too good to work with Plushenko (nor too good to involve him in their April Fool's Day joke, for that matter). Maya Plisetskaya herself was not too good to call herself a "fan". So I don't get why Poroshin was fantasizing (so emotionally) about "Maya Plisetskaya on the stage dancing in Avdish’s cabaret".

    In any case, as the thread appears to be on "art" now....In response to the kind of criticism embodied by Poroshin's long article, Plushy once replied quite simply that "an artist should not always be in the image of a prince". And Mishin once, when comparing his students, said that what was unique about Plushy in his mind was the "wide range of his creativity", even calling him "Shakespearean". Now one may say that Mishin is not objective, I suppose, nevertheless, to my eyes those few sentences (from both of them) already reveal a far greater and deeper understanding of what is "art" than all of Poroshin's multitude of words.

    The definition of art may be all sorts of different things to different people, but to me, if there is one thing that art should not be, I would say that it should not be narrow. Of course people have different preferences, and it's perfectly fine to say that one doesn't like a particular style, or that one doesn't "get" it, but to say that someone isn't an artist just because he doesn't fit into a restricted definition of what "art" should consist of comes across to me as a bit sad. And that was the feeling I get when reading Poroshin's article, I have to say.

    In any case, I don't quite understood Poroshin's point: after all that he goes on about "pop music", when you look at Plushenko's competitive programs, none of them really can be said to be with pop music, anyway.... The closest he came to "pop music" in competition were (rewritten) movie scores. In the end, it seems kind of strange to me for Poroshin to get so upset that Plushenko doesn't skate according to what he (Poroshin, that is) thinks should be skated. Maybe in a way, the article really ends up revealing more about himself than about Plushenko.
    exellent review!
    in russia people like Poroshin are 30 silver coins people, no one knows them, and they apear and disapear

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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    You two probably didn't plan it but in fact you hit something here. I noticed long time ago that the worst Plu haters in the Internet, and in RuNet, are gays. Is it when it all started, with the skirt on him that was seen inappropriate by some gays, as if he was laughing at something? Mishin was also accused of being homophobic when he insisted on top jumps and being more manly in skating in Men segment.
    How exactly do you know if a poster is gay unless they mention it? He has plenty of gay fans, too, and plenty of straight females who dislike him, too... so I don't see what sexuality has to do with it. And how do you attribute gays not liking him to that Asissai program (which, I for one, hadn't seen until it was just posted, and I thought that program was hilarious and entertaining)? I also certainly don't think he's homophobic... maybe a little bit misogynistic when he saying it's not a men's competition without the quad (which indirectly debases the women's competition). But I can't see how being homophobic would do anything but harm you in a sport like figure skating (Joubert and Stojko, as great skaters as they are, will always be in my bad books for their comments).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Here is Dan Hollander's interpretation.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKBFcC3tK2U#t=1m10s
    Hah, that's amazing.

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