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Thread: Can Evgeni Plushenko win the 2014 Olympic title?

  1. #706
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    You know, being a fan of him so much fun and joy.

    In last year Artsitry on ice, Taiwan: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...3444612&type=2
    translating:
    Host: Anne is a "professional" skating fan, right?
    Anne: I'm not that "professional" but I love watching skating very much!

    Host: So how do you feel from the start of this show?
    Anne: I feel so happy, as if I'm melted by happiness. I have weak feet now.

    Host: Wow, you're expressive. You're not melted yet. What do you expect the most today since you love watching skating for a long time?
    Anne: I'm choked by excitement... There must be lots of peolple waiting for him. He shot an arrow at my heart from 2002-- our "King on Ice," Evgeni Plushenko (began sobbing)

    Host: Are you crying? This king on ice... (amazed by Anne's reaction) You should be an actress. She really cried! I can imagine what a real fan feel if she has the chance to witness her idol, right in Taiwan, on this stage.
    Anne: No words can describe how excted I'm now... We can share the same air on this ice rink. This is incredible!

    Host: I think You are incredible! Calm down! She's crying! Bring tissues. Yes, Let's welcome the king on ice, Evgeni Plushenko!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMnms8kKeJE in Japan, so cute and funny

    and so on....

    and two of the many posts that are still doing big smile on my face:

    "If.. If i could hug this man, my life would be complete......you know what, f.... hugging. If i could just touch him. like the cuff of his sleeve. i would be happy. /totes not a stalker"

    "I wouldnt want to marry him because I dont want to destroy his beautiful genes with mine if we got children."

  2. #707
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    He's not exactly respecting Chan as an athlete and as a person (or Skate Canada) when saying the Canadian federation won him his 2013 World title.
    It is because the result is so unbelievable to someone fight in this field for so long. But if only for that you think he is arrogant, so be it.

    It would have actually been better if Plushenko hadn't competed at all in Euros and taken care of his health, instead of presenting a watered down SP while injured. You say he wouldn't have competed if he were unprepared/not healthy... well, clearly he was unprepared if he didn't come with a quad (against Fernandez/Amodio/Brezina/Joubert), and clearly he was not healthy enough if his SP fall was actually attributed to injury. If he didn't compete in the FS due to injury from the SP fall, I can accept that... but what I am skeptical of is people defending his poor SP performance primarily due to injury affecting his ability.

    Skaters have to perform while injured all the time -- but you would have to imagine that a skater only skates with an injury if they believe they can perform well, particularly a perfectionist like Plushenko. And with perfect 3A and 3Z-3T in practices leading up to the SP, I wouldn't attribute his poor performance solely due to injury - as inconceivable as it might be, maybe he actually legitimately made errors. All I'm saying is that people shouldn't rule that out and immediately say it was because of injury. Stating that you have a performance-affecting injury but are going to compete anyways is setting people up to applaud you if you skate well "he skated well in spite of injury" or defend you if you skate poorly "he skated poorly due to injury".


    So what do you think that the cause of his shaking Luz and falling 3A? As a great jumper as you put him, when he is healthy enough, how he made these mistakes? We only say due to the injury, he made mistakes on his jumps, what is this skeptical?

    I get it you think he did not compete in FS because you think he is not injured enough to not skating. Hence his withdraw from EC is purely cowardliness. But I do not get your logic that Plushenko's fans cannot attribute his poor performance in SP to his injury. So in your logic, he should fell all around in practice to convince people that he is injured?

    I can accept that he could make mistake in competition, but two jumps in a row? No way. He never makes same mistakes twice (I think you might bring up his 2004 performance so I put it down here my stand). He is not Chan, falling on jumps (especially on triples) is not normal for Plushenko.

    You have reduced him to just a consistent jumper, now you want to strip that away. Great job!!!

  3. #708
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Did you survey all those Plu haters and did they all at some point say they were gay?
    Are you asking me if I know for sure if they are gay or not? They, and you, said "I am gay", so I took their, and your, words for that. Of course I can't know for sure if some anonymous Plu hater like yourself is indeed gay. Maybe "they are actually 60-year-old men in drag." What are we talking about.
    It's pretty delusional of you to think that several fans of figure skating aren't gay -- certainly in North America and Europe. There are only a handful of straight men that I know who are fans of figure skating
    I believe you. I am sure there are only a handful of straight men that you know. But it's pretty delusional of you to think that fs fans are gay just because your environment is such.
    So you agree then, that is misogyny.
    And saying "Men have penes" is misogyny too? Oh well. I have a news for you: there were, are and will always be men and women in this world. Men and Women is sport, and Men and Ladies in figure skating. Two different segments with quite established set of elements, where quad was the feature of gold in Men for two decades before Evan. So yes, challenging a quad is Manliness and I don't know any woman (except some Evan ubers) who would feel offended by this statement.
    I don't get oversensitive when a straight guy calls me "gay" because that's what I am. But I certainly wouldn't enjoy him calling me a "sissy" or a "pansy" or "an effeminate homosexual".
    Why? Didn't you defend the right to hold an opinion on another thread just recently? Chan ubers' hypocrisy at its best strikes again.
    it's about as bad as when gay guys say "I want someone straight-acting" or "I want to date a man, not a woman", that reeks of insecurity, prejudice and downright douchiness.
    Here you lost me completely. If I, a straight girl, say "I want to date a man, not a woman", I somehow become a douchebag? How? But I indeed want to date a man and not a woman!
    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    When people correctly refer to "gay" or "gays" as a noun or plural noun, they are referring to only men -- many lesbians hate it when they are lumped into the plural noun "gays".
    Wonderful. And they call it "education." In my phrase "I am gay" that you are replying on the word "gay" is an adjective. When you refer to a noun it should be "a gay" and "gays." Lesbian women say "I am gay" all the time and no one finds it offensive. Except you. But who cares.

  4. #709
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    He's not exactly respecting Chan as an athlete and as a person (or Skate Canada) when saying the Canadian federation won him his 2013 World title.

    It would have actually been better if Plushenko hadn't competed at all in Euros and taken care of his health, instead of presenting a watered down SP while injured. You say he wouldn't have competed if he were unprepared/not healthy... well, clearly he was unprepared if he didn't come with a quad (against Fernandez/Amodio/Brezina/Joubert), and clearly he was not healthy enough if his SP fall was actually attributed to injury. If he didn't compete in the FS due to injury from the SP fall, I can accept that... but what I am skeptical of is people defending his poor SP performance primarily due to injury affecting his ability. Skaters have to perform while injured all the time -- but you would have to imagine that a skater only skates with an injury if they believe they can perform well, particularly a perfectionist like Plushenko. And with perfect 3A and 3Z-3T in practices leading up to the SP, I wouldn't attribute his poor performance solely due to injury - as inconceivable as it might be, maybe he actually legitimately made errors. All I'm saying is that people shouldn't rule that out and immediately say it was because of injury. Stating that you have a performance-affecting injury but are going to compete anyways is setting people up to applaud you if you skate well "he skated well in spite of injury" or defend you if you skate poorly "he skated poorly due to injury".
    This was all explained already!! You posted this before and it was all explained! You also are totally ignoring the difference between practice and warm up! Something happened during the lutz which messed up the 3a subsequently! He won Russian nationals with the same injuries but they were flaring up badly and struck badly during the lutz! He had to compete because if he didn't everyone would think he never had any Intention to but he did have the intention just like in 2012 he did. The issue of not performing the quad has been explained, the issue of falling on the 3a has been explained. All this has been explained! You don't believe he was injured you don't believe apparently there was any injury just that apparently he just became a horrible over confident headcase who lost his 3a ability i guess because of his age? I don't know what youre saying because it's so against all reality that it is just bizarre in every way! Like you said he never withdrew because of injury when he famously did at 2005 worlds!! This is total trolling!!!

  5. #710
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    You know, being a fan of him so much fun and joy.
    It is! (And if you substitute "Michelle Kwan" I will be right there wearing my own little party hat. )

    Cheering for your favorite is the best thing about sports. I never make fun of someone who is over-enthusiastic about the home team. (My next door neighbor painted his house in the University of Michigan colors, maise and blue -- OK, I make fun of him a little. )

    Anyway, in the context of Internet forums, I think it is quite unnecessary to rain on other peoples' parades. If someone thinks that Florent Amodio is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and I think he is "eh?" -- well, I can just think the "eh" part silently to myself.

    But then I guess we wouldn't have a discussion board.
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-25-2013 at 12:01 PM.

  6. #711
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    And I've said that I agree that he withdrew from Euros 2013 due to injury, but considering what was at stake (the gold/his reputation/his superiority to Fernandez-Amodio-Brezina and his own countrymen), I wouldn't have been shocked if we later found out that he wasn't injured at the time and his camp had cited an injury as an excuse.

    Like I said, he was 6th, so there was no point further injuring himself, or shooting for gold when that was out of reach, and he would have needed one of his better skates just to make the podium.
    I do not find anything to criticize here -- or even to analyze. It seems clear enough that despite his aches and pains Plushenko decided to give it the old college try in the short. It didn't work out, so he withdrew and proceeded to attend to his heath challenges. No harm, no foul.
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-25-2013 at 12:09 PM.

  7. #712
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Are you asking me if I know for sure if they are gay or not? They, and you, said "I am gay", so I took their, and your, words for that. Of course I can't know for sure if some anonymous Plu hater like yourself is indeed gay. Maybe "they are actually 60-year-old men in drag." What are we talking about. ...

    I believe you. I am sure there are only a handful of straight men that you know. But it's pretty delusional of you to think that fs fans are gay just because your environment is such.
    Could we wrap this part of the discussion up now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Right, because Tarasova would have no biased opinion whatsoever on the matter. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But, "those people" are the ones doling out the marks.

    If you want to know why they put those marks, maybe look at the actual intricacies (or lackthereof) in Plushenko's program compared to the other skaters, instead of your "end of story" being a fellow Russian's opinion of Evgeni's skate. If you're unwilling to look at the marks and compare it to the programs, and just go by what you saw, then you'll keep telling yourself Tarasova was right.

    And why 5-6 marks? Why not 8-10 marks higher? They never explained why the marks should be higher and where the higher marks should come from. It certainly wouldn't be PCS... that SP was not deserving of 44 points PCS and back in 2010 judges were also being more conservative with their PCS scores -- nobody scored 9's in the FS, not even Lambiel who had the best PCS and the best programs.
    You must be joking again, you really think Tarasova doesn't know how to judge
    See, she didn't mention LP, but SP, so it was not biased opinion
    I don't remember TAT saying something meaningless when was asked about her opinion on judging. She always carefull and fair to all skaters, not only russians, because she loves FS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    CSG is like doctor who running up and down across time to find the evidence support his point. Anyway, apparently whatever Plushenko does/did, it will only be right when CSG can use it to show how ordinary, arrogant skater he is. Otherwise, it is totally non-existing. Everybody can beat Plushenko in certain area, so what the fuss about him? Let us forget about Plushenko and enjoy the great Chan's era, since his artistry is unmatched from PCS point of view. Let us worship Aaron who will perform 5 quads on Olympics. So now Plushenko has nothing to compete with young guys, why bother?

    But wait, maybe we need to bare his so average ability on ice for one more year (if he is healthy enough) since he is the best single men skater in Russia, so it would only make sense that he would bore us on the Olympics. What a tragic for figure skating fans
    Well CSG is so well aware, that only Plushenko is on a Chan's way for the gold in Sochi. Only Plushenko can blow the roof if he will be healthy to skate well.

    Now NA media started black pr against Plushenko, its too bad they didn't learn any lesson from 2002 and 2010

  10. #715
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    Quote Originally Posted by bestskate8 View Post
    Now NA media started black pr against Plushenko, its too bad they didn't learn any lesson from 2002 and 2010
    Sadly, North American media barely knows that there is such a thing as men's figure skating.

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    *sigh*

    Anyone else growing tired of this argument going around in circles?

    Perhaps we could sum it up simply and move on.

    CSG hates Plushenko.

    And there are Plushenko ubers in here.

    Now that that's cleared up, can we move on?

  12. #717
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    *sigh*

    Anyone else growing tired of this argument going around in circles?

    Perhaps we could sum it up simply and move on.

    CSG hates Plushenko.

    And there are Plushenko ubers in here.

    Now that that's cleared up, can we move on?
    This is the darkest off season. Everyone is bored, the big summer shows have not started yet... just amuse ourselves.

  13. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Are you asking me if I know for sure if they are gay or not? They, and you, said "I am gay", so I took their, and your, words for that. Of course I can't know for sure if some anonymous Plu hater like yourself is indeed gay. Maybe "they are actually 60-year-old men in drag." What are we talking about.
    I believe you. I am sure there are only a handful of straight men that you know. But it's pretty delusional of you to think that fs fans are gay just because your environment is such.
    And saying "Men have penes" is misogyny too? Oh well. I have a news for you: there were, are and will always be men and women in this world. Men and Women is sport, and Men and Ladies in figure skating. Two different segments with quite established set of elements, where quad was the feature of gold in Men for two decades before Evan. So yes, challenging a quad is Manliness and I don't know any woman (except some Evan ubers) who would feel offended by this statement.
    Why? Didn't you defend the right to hold an opinion on another thread just recently? Chan ubers' hypocrisy at its best strikes again.
    Here you lost me completely. If I, a straight girl, say "I want to date a man, not a woman", I somehow become a douchebag? How? But I indeed want to date a man and not a woman!
    Wonderful. And they call it "education." In my phrase "I am gay" that you are replying on the word "gay" is an adjective. When you refer to a noun it should be "a gay" and "gays." Lesbian women say "I am gay" all the time and no one finds it offensive. Except you. But who cares.
    Okay, this part of the discussion is over, as Mathman says. You clearly have no idea what can be construed as misogyny (which is surprising, considering you are a woman), how misappropriating it is to question a guy's manliness (or "Manliness", whatever) if he doesn't attempt a quad, you obviously have limited perspective and awareness of gender/LGBT topics, and you're just making unsubstantiated assumptions about me -- for the record, I know plenty of straight men (certainly more than those you've claimed to say "I am they're gay on skating forums - feel free to actually provide proof/numbers at some point, not that there is any), my background is part Euro and I lived in Netherlands/Belgium for 6 years (even though my nationality is Canadian), and I'm not some PR person for Skate Canada set out to "homologate the demagogery of the butt era of trolling zambonis" (to use your juvenile, played-out catchphrases that never ever seem to change in your posts).

  14. #719
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    Okay, this part of the discussion is over, as Mathman says. You clearly have no idea what can be construed as misogyny (which is surprising, considering you are a woman), how misappropriating it is to question a guy's manliness (or "Manliness", whatever) if he doesn't attempt a quad, you obviously have limited perspective and awareness of gender/LGBT topics, and you're just making unsubstantiated assumptions about me -- for the record, I know plenty of straight men (certainly more than those you've claimed to say "I am they're gay on skating forums - feel free to actually provide proof/numbers at some point, not that there is any), my background is part Euro and I lived in Netherlands/Belgium for 6 years (even though my nationality is Canadian), and I'm not some PR person for Skate Canada set out to "homologate the demagogery of the butt era of trolling zambonis" (to use your juvenile, played-out catchphrases that never ever seem to change in your posts).
    Haha. How is it "this part of the discussion is over" if you are the one who keeps talking on it while claiming that the discussion is over? It doesn't make any logical sense at all unless you are trolling just for the sake of it. You are judging people as "juvenile, played-out catchphrases, have limited perspective and awareness" of this and that, and you get offended when someone "making unsubstantiated assumptions." So, you have the right to make assumptions about people but they don't have the right to do the same about you. Poorly played and rather boring hypocrisy of Chan ubers at its best again. Yawn. Performing a quad is a gold feature in Men's segment and it has nothing to do with LGBT rights or misogyny, the rant that you tried unsuccessfully to troll here. The "considering you are a woman" doesn't make any sense either considering that you perception of women is rather limited. And why "homologate the demagogery of the butt era of trolling zambonis" should change in the first place if Patrick keeps zamboni-ing the ice with his butt and win over better skated guys?

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    It is because the result is so unbelievable to someone fight in this field for so long. But if only for that you think he is arrogant, so be it.
    I think it's arrogance in that he's saying "I know figure skating, so I'm allowed to make speculations with no evidence whatsoever that a skater's federation won him a gold instead of the skater actually achieving that." It's one thing to say Ten should have won (something I agree with), but it's another thing to accuse Skate Canada and question their integrity by suggesting they manipulated and politicked for their skater to win. It is also insulting to things that Chan actually did do well, such as his excellent SP, and the two quads landed in the LP which contributed to the victory. Even saying "Chan didn't win, the judging system did." would have been a more 'accurate' statement (though still an insulting one), but instead he chose to make a defamatory statement against Skate Canada.

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya124 View Post
    So what do you think that the cause of his shaking Luz and falling 3A? As a great jumper as you put him, when he is healthy enough, how he made these mistakes? We only say due to the injury, he made mistakes on his jumps, what is this skeptical?
    My skepticism is of people saying "the reason he made mistakes in his SP is because of injury". He's been a very consistent jumper in the past, but his jumping ability is diminished from the past... so it makes sense for him to make errors. Note his mistakes in his programs at Russian nationals. Note that he didn't attempt the 4T internationally in his SP last season when he had no problem attempting it before. And he's had more recent problems with his 3Z than in the past. It would be like me saying "Chan must have been injured at Worlds because he's been able to land 3Z's in his sleep when he's healthy enough." to rationalize his poor performance. I agree that injuries may have contributed to a poorer performance, but I can't picture him wanting to compete while injured and further risking injury, against such a strong field that could push him off the podium and likely would have, and in a competition that isn't particularly important which he's won many times before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I do not find anything to criticize here -- or even to analyze. It seems clear enough that despite his aches and pains Plushenko decided to give it the old college try in the short. It didn't work out, so he withdrew and proceeded to attend to his heath challenges. No harm, no foul.
    It doesn't seem like he's the type to go for the "old college try" though. He's not the type to just "show up" given his reputation... he comes to win. So he must have felt prepared enough to win. With the Olympics next year, where Plushenko presumably wants to beat Fernandez/Brezina/Joubert/Amodio, it's not smart to show up with an injury and an SP with no quad, and potentially have people say Fernandez/Brezina/Joubert/Amodio can beat me and are technically superior. Injury or not, he would have still been 3rd or 4th after the SP, and with Fernandez's FS, he would have likely lost. So it would have made more sense to rest up until he's back to better health enough to put a quad in his SP so he actually has a legitimate shot against the other guys instead of have reduced content and is simply perceived as trying to "keep up"... not to mention it goes against Plushenko's own words that your program should have a quad.

    My issue isn't him pulling out of the FS to tend to his health (that fall and the lutz could have indeed exacerbated his injury to a point that he didn't think it was worth it, especially given the standings)... it's with his fans dismissing his poor performance as solely due to injury. It would kind of be like if Chan/Hanyu/Fernandez/Takahashi had said before 2013 Worlds that he's nursing an ankle injury, so then if he he skated well people could say "Oh wow, he did well even while injured!" or in case he skated poorly people could say "Oh, well, he has an injury, so that's why he skated poorly". In Nagano, Stojko didn't want people to know about his groin injury because he didn't want people to make excuses for him or to have lowered expectations.

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